And thank you for creating this interesting thread. Reading through it is giving me the itch to play Morrowind once again.

I only use auto x5 multiplier mods, both for Morrowind and Oblivion. Morrowind's version requires that you level a skill appropriate to the stat once, but even with that restriction it's difficult to not have two or three x5 options every level.

That way, I can just play naturally, and still never fall too far behind the curve. I can even take a stat without a x5 for a level or two if I want that stat more, knowing that the rest of the x5s will make up for it.

I find this to be the best balance for me; I can't turn off my inner powergamer fully within the vanilla system, but I can with this one small modification. /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

Well, time to put some of this to the test! I'm going to take a new run at the vanilla system with a new character, this time without focusing on multipliers or maxing out stats. This should be interesting...

Thanks again for giving me plenty to think about... great discussion! /biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

Good luck and have fun! /goodjob.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':goodjob:' />

just play naturally and forgo training/forcing skill level ups. if u are blocked by being lower in an atribute, go off exploring and level the skills naturally while doing something.

That's been my approach so far, and it's working out well. Haven't had much playing time the past few days, and a lot of it was eaten up trying to trace a bug/error/crash. But it's looking good so far, and I really like this character, so yeah! This should be fun!

I'm curious, what kind of character is it?

Ha ha!... honestly? He's my Morrowind version of Jules Winnfield (you know, from Pulp Fiction? For a [mature audiences] laugh, Google "Say what again..." and watch one of the videos that show up! If you're not already familiar, that is!) So, his class? BAMF, of course! It even says so on his wallet! Ha ha!

But seriously, he's pretty much a tough guy... up close and personal fights, cool under pressure, and tons of attitude! He's a long blade specialist... carries one favorite, and a solid backup. That pretty much handles it. I usually play with more magic than this, or at least a ranged skill of some sort, but not this time. Jules doesn't need any of that, and with his higher than usual Luck, there's a much better chance that the "bullets" will "pass right through" him! /biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

Oh oh! Those poor Dunmers... Interesting character you got there. I'm sure it'll be a lot of fun to play through Vvardenfell and beyond.

Big Tarantino fan here but I would base a character on someone from Kill Bill or even Reservoir Dogs. Pulp Fiction just left me feeling . . . dirty.

Ha ha! That's actually interesting because I, too, have others that I like better. In fact, my last character was more-or-less modeled after http://youtu.be/-tD8PEZ1D8U (probably my single favorite QT character of all time... the duel scene in that clip is one of the most beautiful I've ever seen in cinema, to be sure! And user discretion is advised on that link: Violence, Some Gore). She was awesome, and I think my MW interpretation was pretty good in most respects (excluding superficial... I'm sorry, but there's just no way Beatrix Kiddo is a blond-haired, blue-eyed Nord! So, I broke from that... but the rest of her personality was fairly well captured, I think! Er, as much as one can do that while RPing in a video game with predefined races, that is! Ha ha!)

But I almost never play as a straight-up, in-your-face warrior type, and I thought Jules might be good. He's afraid of nothing, but definitely has a high degree of reverence for "God". He recognizes that he's just a pawn (the "tyranny of evil men"), but until his time comes to "walk the earth" he's gonna do what he does, and do it extremely well... and that is to be a BAMF! Ha ha!

Thanks for giving me an opening to expand on that a little. In terms of the topic, it's going fine with vanilla so far, but I'll need to play for a while before I really can assess it. Thanks again!

UPDATE

Well, I took Jules through a lot of the MQ, became the Fighter's Guild Guildmaster, and the Knight of the Imperial Dragon. He's just over level 40 now, and there's nothing he can't handle. Leveling proved to actually be fun... I didn't realize it, but I kinda missed those Level Up messages. Forgetting about multipliers was hard at first, but it got easier. Sure, I have a BAMF that has amazing Combat abilities, below average Stealth abilities, and a practically non-existent Magicka pool, but it's fun. True, I'm never really worried about losing a fight, but because his Intelligence and Willpower are still so (relatively) low, powerful sorcerers and necromancers can still be interesting to battle.

Final assessment of vanilla vs. GCD: I think I like vanilla better, to be honest. GCD abstracts a lot of the leveling system out so that you never have to worry about it, which I had always intuitively thought would be preferable. But having played through a character on the vanilla system, without focusing on multipliers, proved to be a more enjoyable experience for me. The game was also quite a bit more stable than it was running GCD which, while not really part of gameplay, goes a long way towards making me happy as a gamer.

On the other hand, I have found another set of mods that I really like. They solve many of the issues I had with the vanilla game, but by using some different and, in some cases, way more effective methods. In short, they are the suite of Gameplay Changes on http://btb2.free.fr/morrowind.html. The work started by Wakim and HotFusion, then continued by BTB, is astounding. The game is much more difficult, takes a lot more strategical planning, and makes other parts of the game a lot more interesting (Alchemy comes immediately to mind). I just started a new PC using this setup (a PC loosely based on Hasimir Fenring from Dune lore), and it's beautiful so far. I think this is going to solve many of the problems I originally had with vanilla leveling because, the more I think about it, the more I realize that these issues weren't really caused by the leveling system; rather, they were revealed by it.

So, there you have it. Just thought I'd report back after pivoting on vanilla leveling. I'm back onboard with it, and enjoying every minute.

Hope you're all doing well, and that you have a fantastic Spring weekend!

I honestly do not see why you would want mods for leveling in Morrowind. It's so easy to power level in Morrowind and you can opt to do it only as much as you want to. You can almost leave the difficulty slider alone and make the game as easy or as hard as you want. Having said that, though, I will freely admit I haven't done any mods that affect leveling, so I don't know what they're like.

On one play through, I made a character uber enough that he one-hit-killed things like Almalexia, then roflstomped his way even through Solstheim. Only time I did that, though. In subsequent play throughs I kept it toned down a bit and just used alchemy for tight spots. Heck, I even wound up doing some pre-made classes for once. Pre-made classes make me want to power level to ridiculous hights for some reason, so I tend to stick to custom.

It's just that Morrowind vanilla has enough options and methods that it doesn't feel like it needs anything.

I've never used any leveling mods so I can't say I've had experience there, but I've never paid attention to my multipliers or really cared about it in vanilla. My current character has about 35 endurance at level 25. It doesn't really matter because I use potions and enchantments to keep my health up anyway. I've yet to find a reason to play with a leveling mod. Although, I have to say, I'm level 25 and I can't say I've experienced the "The game is too easy, I am a God now." feeling, either.

It's not easy to ignore the multipliers, but so worth it in the end. Glad to hear you were able to get used to it.
And high five for using BTB's gameplay changes! Great mod, even the Readme is great.

I ignore it.
Really it depends on which game you want to play, the level-up game or Morrowind the RPG? Personally I play the RPG by making skills choices in the beginning and play according to the role set by those choices. The level-up numbers come as they do and I never give them a second thought.

What used to bother me is years ago many posters would comment about how you have to get max numbers at level for efficient leveling. I never did figure out how to role play my character and get these magic numbers. Why is my leveling so bad? What was I doing wrong?

The answer really is, nothing. Took a long time playing through Daggerfall and Morrowind before I realized I wasn't doing anything wrong. I'm having fun, the game is just fine and that is all that matters. So now when I read comments concerning getting good multipliers or wasting attribute points or the need to grind out skills or that it is somehow unnatural or unbearable, well my first thought is my play is just fine and that the commenter has gotten obsessed with the level-up game.

It was just a few years ago while playing Oblivion that I found Realistic Leveling and tried it. I liked it, it fit my play style. That's I started using level-up mods. This time last year I reloaded Morrowind and added in parts of GCD and it works well for me so far. Biggest advantage is I no longer feel inferior in my character leveling.

I use vanilla leveling. If there's anything I would like to change in my Morrowind right now (it has MGSO and some added armors, clothes and weapons) it would be more NPCs in Mournhold, to make it feel more like a city and less like a huge abandoned (but luxurious) bathroom.

I'm one of those who don't care that much about multipliers, and I haven't used training. Now, if a training session could be more realistically done so you actually get lessons from the trainer, that would be another thing. Now it just feels like cheating for money.
My character is level 28 or something and doing fine. I don't use much enchantments either, because my character is a bit suspicious of them.
I think choosing a class and picking attributes every level is quite fun, and I wouldn't want to do away with that part of leveling. I prefer to choose myself than let the game do it for me.

I have never felt the need to use a leveling mod. I'm fine with the way Bethesda designed it.

People who use leveling mods are typically trying to avoid things like power-leveling, and also to remove certain aspects of leveling from the player's control. I think this is best described by players who talk about not knowing or caring what their PC's level is... once you take away the level-up mechanism, such players are free to play without ever having to worry about these things (which many feel breaks their RP experience). That's not really why I tried leveling mods myself, but I certainly understand this POV, as well as why leveling mods were created in the first place. But personally, I've headed in a different direction as of late...

Just to be clear, leveling mods in and of themselves don't make the game harder, per se. Some have alternative progression rates that can make it harder to level up, but I don't know that they solve the issue of the game getting too easy... at least not by themselves. In fact, I've ditched leveling mods in favor of gameplay change mods that do make the game harder. The idea here is, indeed, to avoid getting the "god complex" too early!

Yes, this is actually harder than it seems... I got "efficient leveling" stuck in my head very early on, and it was very hard to break out of it again... kind of like deprogramming a Moonie, you know? /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':smile:' />
YES! BTB has one helluva sense of humor, does he not? And his changes? Brilliant! His expansion on Wakim's and HF's work, combined with his own additions, make TES3 an entirely new animal... one that's considerably more difficult to domesticate! I am really digging this suite of mods, and I have come to think that they are what I was really looking for instead of leveling mods. Leveling mods just made the symptoms less apparent for a time.

Forgive the snip, but I really wanted to respond to this part of your post. Yes, I get that, I really do. For me it wasn't so much the forums, but rather the online guides and what-not that infected me with the "efficient leveling" bug. I almost wish I'd never heard the term. Once I understood the issue, I was determined never to fall victim to an inefficiently leveled playthrough! No sir, not me! Ugh... all the time I spent worrying about this stuff. It took forever for me to wake up and realize... you don't have to play the game that way!!!

One more thing though... Don't ever let someone make you feel like the way you play your game is "wrong". That's for you to decide!

I've never had a problem with using Trainers; they are a part of the vanilla game after all. Also, now that I've entered the realm of BTBGI, Trainers have suddenly become necessary!
Yeah, like I said in my update above, there were things about vanilla leveling I missed (like the level-up messages, for example). But to be fair, GCD arguably puts you more in control of which attributes are raised. Because the attribute increases are based directly on which skills your PC has been using, you can actually get a better representation out of it. For example, in vanilla you only get to raise three attributes, regardless of what you've been doing. With GCD, skill increases feed directly into attribute gains, and are not limited to only three attributes per level. This is arguably more accurate. That said, I'm using vanilla leveling again, myself, and with the rest of the mods I'm currently using this is working out just fine!


Thanks very much for the comments, all!

Yes. This is precisely why I use these mods. Distributing bonus attribute points has nothing to do with roleplaying, in my opinion. To me roleplaying is all about the character. When I am in a menu choosing bonus points I am doing this as the player, not the character. So I use mods to get rid of it.

This is my goal in choosing all the mods I use. As a roleplayer I strive to put the emphasis on character action wherever possible and to eliminate or reduce the effects of player action as much as possible.

Thanks, Pseron... It's good to know I'm not terribly far off the mark here. I always feel like I'm going out on a limb when I try to describe the experiences of others, or at least the way I perceive them. Thanks for the confirmation.

Incidentally, I think you had the best quote in this thread regarding modded leveling, or at least the most representative of players looking at leveling like you do. If I may:
Well said. I don't think it could be put in much plainer terms and still get the idea across. /foodndrink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':foodndrink:' />

This is starting to confuse me. It sounds like people are using leveling mods to do exactly what people diss Skyrim about; attributes are essentially removed and leveling becomes trivial and somewhat pointless. I might be missing what these mods actually do or how people are saying it, but that's what it sounds like to me.

I think to say people are using mods like GCD to do exactly what people don't like about Skyrim, well, that's probably over-generalizing things too much. There are deeper issues involved in that discussion. Also, after playing Skyrim for a while last fall, I can tell you I did not get the feeling that playing Morrowind with GCD was a similar experience (you still have to level up in Skyrim, for example). Also, playing with GCD (and I assume with other, similar mods), leveling is abstracted, but I would not describe it as trivial, and definitely not pointless. But yeah, I think you do have a less-than-complete understanding of what mods like GCD are trying to do... which is totally understandable. There's a lot to this stuff, and a bazillion different ways to look at it! Check out some of the readmes sometime if you really want to see what's up under the hood of these mods.

Eh ive never used modded leveling in morrowind. I play a relatively un modded morrowind anyway. I don't even know what kind of leveling mods there are, and how they change leveling. And ive played at least over 5000 hours of morrowind. So im obviously going with the vanilla option.

I've never had a problem with using Trainers; they are a part of the vanilla game after all. Also, now that I've entered the realm of BTBGI, Trainers have suddenly become necessary!

I don't use trainers in the other games either. /shrug.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':shrug:' />
I gain those skills anyway, it just takes a little longer, and I don't mind /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />