Yes. What I read explictly mentions gremlins.

no,i mean wtf is a gremlin?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gremlin "A gremlin is a folkloric creature, commonly depicted as mischievous and mechanically oriented with a specific interest in aircraft."

Gremins have been mentioned as being in Tamriel, but they only appeared on-screen in Redguard. http://www.imperial-library.info/bestiaries/redguard_large_gremlin-1.jpg

and you mean gremlins are related to goblins?

They are. I found out where I read this, it's the Pocket Guide to the Empire.

http://www.imperial-library.info/pge/wildregions.shtml

In retrospect, it doesn't mention goblins specifically, but it does identify orcs, ogres and gremlins as goblin-ken, meaning yes, they are related to goblins, and with that you'd think there would be goblins in Orsinium. I await the day we can visit Orsinium in-game to find this out - it sounds like a very interesting place.

kinda far fetched,but is there some kinda chance the orcs in the orc capital and surrounding areas would be using goblins as some kinda slave?

they kinda look like orcs,so the orcs would'nt be to disgusted (i think)
and orcs are stronger,making the slavery easy

But there is no slavery in the Empire, so that's out. Slavery was only legal in Vvardenfell, and eventually even that got outlawed.

Goblins don't have rights in the Empire. They're pests, not citizens. If they were, the law would've had a problem with you killing them.

yes,but that doesn't mean it's not possible it exists but is kept quiet.

i mean,orcs probebly still have some grudges to other races,and would break their rules just for fun.

and i think goblin slavery would be more like having a pet;they arn't smart enough to understand their held prisoners

though thats probebly wrong

Hey, did you even talk to the High Elf guy in the Desolate Mine Quest? Did you know that he mentioned High Elves enslaving goblins?

:sigh: Christ...

And you never saw any Tex Avery cartoons as a child, have you?

1.thats a year ago last time i did fighters guild

2.tex avery?

1. Okay, now you know. High elves are known to enslave goblins.

2. Animator. Worked on a bunch of Bugs Bunny cartoons. The gremlin is the little green guy who takes bolts off the body of the plane. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/01/Falling_hare2_restored.jpg K, I was wrong. Falling Hare was not animated by Tex Avery.

A cartoonist that did mgm and buena vista stuff.

tamriel has no laws forbiding to do "bad" stuff to animals?

the only creature i've seen there being laws for are horses (oblivion)

Horses are property.

this is kinda far out but: a horse is a living thing. "owning" a living thing is slavery
horse slavery? :rolleyes:

A mega-radical interpretation.

back to the original topic:

lets say goblins are "semi" smart. they can do simple stuff and say simple words.

thats the goblins of today

what would the goblins have "evolved" from?i'm sure at some point they were alot dumber...

(this 150 second wait is killing me!!!)

I enslave Corn, thousands upon thousands are standing in line for me waiting till I chop their heads off.

The Goblins seem like they must be more intelligent than people give them credit for. They have organized tribes, they make various tools which include iron armor of some sort, so they know how to smith. They lay clever traps to catch their prey and they appear to domesticate rats. They can use magick and perhaps even craft potions? They know how to cook and either know how to make or make use of pots pans and other utensils. Certainly summoning undead servants is a complicated task for a mere animal. Surely they must have spoken language or they wouldn't have such complicated organization. While they don't seem to have any written language, the presence of symbols and totems might be a precursor to that. Lastly, despite being a dangerous menace they have managed to survive completely surrounded by the Empire with no apparent cohesion amongst the various Goblin tribes. So I'd say they are probably smart enough to negotiate with. However, it seems the current state of things precludes this. Both parties seem inclined to kill first and ask questions later. At the very least Goblins are a lot more intelligent than any animal in the real world. Hell, they appear to be more sophisticated than neanderthals.

I doubt that even in the Summerset Isles they will ever be integrated. The reason they are only servants and footsoldiers is because they are stupid and violent. Because this is a fantasy setting, and not the real world, I think it is fair to say that this is justifiable racism. Orcs may not be as smart as some other races, but they are definitely able to function in society. Goblins just can't.

edit: Nevermind that actually. I think it depends on what level of inclusion we are talking about. I don't think that they would be able to live in civilized society, but it would be possible for the intelligent races to reach a level of understanding with them. Maybe just enough to stop violence. The ricklings in Bloodmoon were pretty f*cking stupid, but there were still occasions like the one

"Goblin-ken" doesn't really mean anything, just a vague, degatory term lumping together completely different races. It's like the term "beastfolk", a label put on almost any race that does not resemble man or mer. For example, it is used on both Orc, Khajiit, Argonian and goblins, despite those are all completely different from each other.

Also, there are two other things to keep in mind about that book: Firstly, it is filled to the brim with Imperial propaganda. Orsinium was an enemy of the Empire at the time (it even says outright that the Orcs as a race were hated by the Emperor), and thus they try to derogate it as much as possible.
Secondly, and most important; the PGE was written before the Great Orc Ret-con had been carried out. Their background had not yet been established, and the story of how they turned from elves in to Orcs together with Trinimac-into-Malacath did not exist yet.


A race of kids in the defiant age?


Having a goblin as a pet would be like having a gnarly grizzly bear as one - they are not domesticated, like a cat, dog or a working ox. There is a reason they are enslaved.



All creatures, races and people come from the same source - the et'Ada. Evolution does not exist on Nirn like it does on Earth (which isn't strange considering the world is only a few thousand years old), so goblins have probably always been as they are now. Well, at least their intellectual (and physical as well) capacities. They probably learnt how to use tools and such somewhere on the way, but the point is, they have always been able to learn it.



The Proletariat will rise again!

Before you can speak of Retroactive continuity, you first have to make changes to the past. The first PGE was written some 300 years before Gortwog got his hands on the Numidium and founded Orsinium.

Also, perhaps more important then nothing that the PGE contains propaganda, is that Tamriel is not this magical fantasy setting where everybody magically knows who everybody else is. What people knew about Orcs was subject to misinformation, or simply a lack of information. That the armies of Bretony and Highrock and Skyrim had been fighting them for long periods does not help either.

Fictional history is such an interesting subject. There's both the in-universe history (Gortwog winning imperial recognition for the Orcs) and the meta-history (someone at Bethesda deciding that Orcs would make a cool playable race) and the way they influence each others (one of the Daggerfall endings justified making Orcs more than just monsters). When actual retcons are inserted, the timeline stops being a line and becomes a two-dimensional chart.

Kinda like a Dragon Break.

Await the day no longer - just load up Daggerfall and a dos simulator and bingo you can even meet Gortwog himself - charming chappie - far more civilised and rational than most of the people I have met in Nirn so far.

Btw - I met no goblins when I met Gortwog ...

ps - can't remember if the palace I met him in was called Orsinium either - it was a long time ago