who likes the enclave?

Let the whole of the world hear me as I declare that the Enclave will be growned into the radioactive dirt. May our children walk anew over the graves of these enemies of humanity, and let this corrupt remnant of the old world fade with the coming of a healed post-nuclear world.

The Enclave is alright. I dont like how they were made out to be the bad guys in Fallout 3, and how the BoS was made out to be the good guys....

Yeah, some people tend to get all dikeish when someone tries to kill them, their families and most life on the planet. Damned bigots.

I think the Enclave is a good in the sense that they are trying to reestablish the United States, but they are pretty terrible at performing this since like 2 people have destroyed their base of operations in the West and East with two deceased presidents? I don't think that they are going accomplish their goal being that they have the worst military record imaginable.

i like how they are trying 2 fix everything, but i disagree with the methods... and the bigotry... but i hate the BoS

Let the whole world reply that it is ground not growned.

The level of written English on here is pretty abysmal, I've got to say. I'd do something about it, but when I do the moderators get pretty snotty. Given how quiet this forum is, I don't think it's worth the effort.

I must agree on the slow death of the English language. But there's not much to do besides sit back and watch the horror unfold.

Anyway, on topic, when playing the game it's really quite fun to be a dike and side with the Enclave. But if we're going to try and really anolyze it from a real-world perspective, I can't for the life of me see how anyone could condone anything the Enclave does.

Yes, the Enclave is essentially the remnants of the United States government. And yes, they claim to want to rebuild society. That's fine; it is what their job would be, after all. But at the expense of KILLING EVERYONE? That's called "genocide" my friends.

Much like Hitler wanted to exterminate the Jews (and did, to a certain extent), Eden wants to exterminate everyone. Sure, he makes it sound like he just wants to kill off the Super Mutants, which is fine and dandy. But he also wants to kill all ghouls, who are merely normal people that have been disfigured and genetically altered by exposure to radiation. Wanting to kill all the ghouls is no different than wanting to kill an entire race or religion.

Finally, since the FEV will kill all non pure-strain humans, no matter what Eden says, everyone's going to die. Although he says the Enclave won't be affected, I fail to see how this is possible; it's been 200 years since the bombs fell. It's illogical to think that Enclave soldiers and personnel are any more immune to the FEV than any common wastelander.

Long story short, the Enclave is run by a supercomputer who wants to kill all living humans, thus ending the human race. Sorry, but I can't really support that.

Heck, even the Super Mutants are just horribly mutated human beings. Fawkes is proof that their minds can still be salvaged, and although their symptoms couldn't possibly be reversed, scientific engineering could be enough to at least return their rationality.

Sorry to put so much though into it, but Fallout is such a morally deep game that it's hard to overlook a lot of this stuff.

Oh, also, the Encalve killed your father. Just sayin.

"Good" and "evil" are in the eye of the beholder; no one ever thinks they are the bad guy. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. In the case of the Enclave, their methods are horrifying, and I don't think you can even make much of a case for their goals.

I could go on a separate rant about the Brotherhood of Steel, because frankly they're just as bad on a lot of levels. It's a pick-your-poison type of situation. But I guess that's a discussion for another time.

AEAB

we all know, but none of us care

LOL you compare Hitler with eden ehh this isnt about race its about genetics, civility and pureity yes i notice they are somewhat similar but for VERY and i mean VERY different Causes. Hitler Killed the jews off because he was a racist and facist, Eden wants to kill all the mutants off because of what the world has become No Civility, just everyone for themselfs which i dont mind but in the state where the world is just scraping by and mutation is Rampant you have to kill it all to save the only civil and pure left to rebuild the world because they are the last true humans and have a very legit reason to do what they do. Lets say a terrorist comes into the U.S or wherever you live with a Nuke would you kill him and his followers to stop the destruction of your people its the same scenario and there is even a new movie came out with samuel L. Jackson does the exact same thing.

Uh..




3 > 0
.'. some people care.
QED.

The Enclave's FEV plan was total bat[censored] and I always found it ridiculous, but thankfully Bethesda rescued the faction by adding the plot twist of the FEV plan relying only on President Eden and the player. Colonel Autumn and thus every human under his command refuse to use the FEV and insist on a more humane way of treating the locals (except Ghouls).

I didn't support the faction until I found out about Colonel Autumn's true motives, but I've liked the faction ever since Fallout 2.

I pretty much agree with this. Plus, check the sig.

Rofl colonel autumn is a traitor commiting treason directly against the president although he may not be human it was his duty to asume direct command colonel autumn would be a traitor even in his own fathers eyes seeing as how his father went along with Richardson therefore you cant support the enclave because Autumn doesnt have his own faction and is killed off either way its either side with eden or dont which means if you "Support the Enclave" then you support Richardson and Eden not Autumn because hes a traitor. Although in his defense he does have a badass Overcoat lol.

Okay, that was long and rambling and made little sense, and it's also flavoured by your obviously biased opinion and possibly grade school-level education. Yes. Hitler was completely mad. And most definitely pure evil. But, in his own warped mind, he was rebuilding Germany, freeing the best of humanity from the plotters and the schemers and the weak and the useless. You know, much like the crazier elements of the Enclave were trying to do. So, basically, you had the same sort of thing, but with fewer Charlie Chaplin moustaches.

Personally, I hated the Enclave for their means, but not the end they represented. They, like all other hopeful, ambitious parties, wanted a new, safer, healthier world. They just wanted to do it through mass genocide. Much like how Hitler wanted a new, strong, proud Germany. Through mass genocide.

So, basically Enclave's hope for a new world, and John Henry Eden's smooth, sixy, convince me to join his side voice = awesome.

Enclaves mass genocide plans and racial bigotry, and the fact Autumn's 'I'm so much better than you' attitude gets on my nerves = I'm sorry, I'm afraid I must shoot you in the face now.

I should point out cause you seem to be one of those "Know it all" kids, that Genocide of jews because of their religion isnt the same thing as Genoicde over cannibalistic mutants that want to rip you to shreds. The Enclave arent killing them because they are of different race/ or Religion.. they kill them because they are a VERY big threat to everyone not to mention but just because there are a few that are somewhat civilized doesnt make up for the other 97% of the bunch that will [censored] kill you. So in order to secure the future you have to get rid of all threat towards the only pure humans also only Civilized people left.. That sounds pretty damn different to me.

Okay, you are really not getting it. Go ask Harold, Marcus, the people of Underworld and Gecko, EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BORN OUTSIDE,... Ach, forget about it, it's a lost cause with you. ^_^

You're crazy, you know that?

Hitler didn't just have it in for the Jews, though those were the most unfortunate, and the most targeted. He believed in the Zionist conspiracies that the Jewish people were ruling the world in the shadows, and where they didn't outright rule, they degraded the purity of the people, both genetically and morally. Which is actually pretty damn funny, considering the little fellow was half-Jewish himself. Moving on, he also had a massive hate-on for the Romani and pretty much anyone he viewed as under... No, no, you know what, I'm not going to keep on explaining it from a Hitler = Enclave perspective, because it's different in its own way. Let's focus solely on the Enclave, and see if you get it.

Okay, the Enclave wanted 'civilisation'. They wanted 'purity'. From 'mutants'. But as you could helpfully point out to them in Fallout 2, 'pure' humanity is a relative term, especially when most of the world is a glowing pit of mutation. Okay, say you kill off all the ghouls and supermutants. Guess what? People still fight, people still hate, people still destroy.

So let's find the next level of 'impure', and wipe them out next. People with minor mutations are suddenly being killed off as threats to the new world. And who decides this level of racial purity? Who decides this level of genetic purity? Why, the Enclave of course. Anyone who argues with that is obviously a sympathiser. So let's kill them, too! Ignoring Eden's extreme-level plan, people would easily reach the same state if they were trying to run a world like how Eden wants it to be run. And /he's/ a clear-minded machine. As they say, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

The Enclave are not the 'good guys', unless you are one of them. And if you are, you're a heavily-indoctrinated xenophobe. You're no better than a crazy White Supremist, because you believe that wiping out 'impuries' will fix the world, rather than trying to get people to accept each other, differences aside. Whatever good intentions the Enclave have, it's lost as they merrily march their way to Hell by not realising how crazy they are.

And staying closed, since we had an off topic comment on spelling, and then political posts about Hitler and the Nazis and... :shakehead:

Gaming forum, people. Try to keep that in mind. :stare: