Skyrim: Fallout 3 with swords.

just kidding.

By the hardcoe fans (you guys), yes. By the general public, Morrowind won't even be a topic of discussion. By most people, Skyrim will be compared to three things: Oblivion, Fallout 3/New Vegas, and any other RPGs by other developers that have released since Oblivion.

There's this hardcoe minority that feels Morrowind was better than Oblivion as an overall game, but there are no numbers that justify that. Sales, reviews, general opinions - they all say Oblivion improved on Morrowind so much that many of these people had never even played it. Is that because Oblivion was "dumbed down" in order to widen its scope? No, not at all, but again, there's a hardcoe minority that for some reason thinks that's the case. What it boils down to is: Oblivion was simply a better game than Morrowind was. There is this small group of people that would sacrifice voice acting for a bulk of quests, that don't mind a dice-roll-based combat system, that like their RPGs to be games of numbers in their entirety instead of just in the areas that make sense. And it's these same people that preferred Morrowind to Oblivion, and will, in a very weird twist of logic, attempt to compare Skyrim and Morrowind.

Regardless, as I said, nobody will be comparing Skyrim to Morrowind except that hardcoe minority that holds it in such high esteem. Most will compare it to games that set the bar a bit higher, modern titles - and that's how it should be, really. If Skyrim was just competing with Morrowind, it woukdn't be Skyrim - it'd be Oblivion again.

I'm not aware of any numbers that justify calling the group who feels Morrowind was better a 'minority' either. Best to refrain from offending either group by using an all-inclusive and neutral term: group, side, following, etc. And fanaticizing them--if you will--by calling them hardcoe is right out.

Except New Vegas was developed by Obsidian, not Bethesda :brokencomputer:

Oblivion was awesome, Morrowind was awesome, and I suspect Skyrim will be awesome too.

Ditto..each ES game is individually different. That's one thing I wish the ES community would understand better, I learned to love OB just like Morrowind(my first ES game). Gameplay developed years ago doesn't always translate well to modern game mechanics I expect Bethesda to create something new always.

Well, the fact that the only place you hear things like this on forums dedicated to Elder Scrolls is a fairly good indicator. And, even here, many don't agree. If that's not a minority, then what is?

"hardcoe", in that context, just means dedicated, devoted. It's not a fanatical term. I am certainly a hardcoe gamer, for instance.

What he's saying isn't false. It's math. Oblivion reached a wider audience than Morrowind. Before Oblivion I never heard random people on the street mention an ES game.

Amen brother, but I'm not too hopeful.



No, it's not an indicator of anything, mostly for the obvious reason that it's not true.

Interesting opinion. Fo3 sold more copies than all previous Fos combined but head over to the FoNV forum and see which games it is most compared too.

Morrowind is a curious game, coming on 9 years old yet the official forum is still more active than the forums of many games less than a year old. Sure Ob sold shed load in short time but reading the Skyrim forum today suggests the majority here are in your 'hardcoe minority'.

Exactly. Now I have friends, family - "casual gamers", many of them - that absolutely love the depth and level of immersion Oblivion offered. It wasn't because Oblivion was easy or simplified - it's because it was approachable. Easy to learn, hard to master. That's a difficult balance to strike, and Oblivion pulled it off like no other RPG before or since.

He speaks the truth, sadly thats generally how it works. Like say the competitive community compared to casual the competitive community is stomped in numbers compared to casual. So the hardcoe fans here are outnumbered by the general people that buy the game that honestly either havent played morrowind or wouldent even consider going online to look up a forum to talk about any of the elder scrolls games.

Double post =/

In terms of factions, characters, uniqueness of locations, and general immersiveness - Oblivion was a VERY hollow experience for me (despite the improvements in the combat system).

I did not like or enjoy Oblivion. There is nothing to smile about.

Still, I hope Skyrim is definitely not like SOME aspects of Oblivion, yet is like others. I hope the same for it in respect to Morrowind, and in respect to Daggerfall and Arena.

same goes for the opposite.

Well, we are of different opinions, then.There are things I haven't liked in *all* the games, but I still remember reading some of the extremely over-zealous reply threads, and the resulting hilarity. Yes, you don't have to like the game. Never said you did. Hell, never said I did. But remembering the old arguments, and seeing the calmness of today, is something I enjoy. I guess I'm just overly optimistic, although most people label me the pessimist

That's a side effect of a forum community, not a representation of reality. In any community, people tend to form niche sub-communities based on similar likes and dislikes, similar opinions and thoughts. The majority of the Oblivion fanbase hasn't and won't go out of their way to sign up for and participate in an online forum. Not everyone sees the benefits a forum community can offer. Even worse, some try, only to be burned, only to be told how wrong they are for having opinion X (thanks to said hardcoe minority).

Let me give you another example: platform choice. Most would say that Oblivion is a multiplatform game. However, try to state you prefer playing Oblivion on 360 over PC on an internet forum dedicated to the game, and you'll see just how quickly people come out of the woodwork to call you an idiot.

Web forums tend to have biases. Some are predictable, some form over time, but all skew your view of reality if you spend too much time there. You have to be willing to step back and accept the wider community, the people that don't have the time or the energy or the means to join an online community because they have jobs and families and other responsibilities that take precedent. Thanks to the popularity of TES, these people outnumber you by many times. Just like you, they're still fans. And, just like you, they still deserve their opinion - even if you don't agree with them.

If you notice, I never said Morrowind was terrible. I never said I didn't enjoy it. I didn't even say there was nothing worthwhile that can be learned from it. All I said was, the majority did not prefer it. So if you're hoping for Skyrim to be more like Morrowind and less like Oblivion - it's not going to happen. Not if their goal is to make money, anyway.

Keyword 'here'...in the general world people won't see Oblivion or Skyrim in the historical sense of ES games. This affects how the game is designed and made and is just a fact. The ES games will also be influenced by maturing and changing game design. This garauntees every game will be different from one another. Everyone here seems to have their silos in the ES universe but outside of that I think most have learned to appreaciate each game individually. I guess the one thing that dampens the mood are people here are determined to broadcast their dislike to everyone and anyone that doesn't agree is wrong, that was a HUGE sticking point when Oblivion first came and no doubt it will be the same with Skyrim.

Oblivion is my favorite game of all time!
I definetly hope it is similar to oblivion.

1st off by the time Morrowind was made it has much lesser poly count because PCs of that time couldn't handle any more. So it wasn't any harder or easier to make it. It only probably took less time.


Sure, Oblivion is a good game, but when you take into account that it is a sequel to Morrowind, grade goes down by a major number. 1st off they cut variety down, you get this simply by comparing skills only. Morrowind has 27 of them, Oblivion has 21, and this automatically takes down many classes and thus replay value.
Also Morrowind had much greater depth, while Oblivion was more of an action hack&slash game.

Aside from all this, I did spent much fun time, but it just had it's very short time limit. Oblivion is a good game, but a fact is a fact, you cannot compare it's atmosphere on any level to Morrowind's.



However, I sign what guy above said, hoping to Skyrim be Skyrim and nothing alike any previous TES games. Good action, compared with deep story, much lore and unique atmosphere is all I ask for, and I know Bethesda CAN do it (because they already have).

While I find this to be an odd thing to discuss in general, aren't you arguing against yourself here? If it took less time = more material could be made in a set timeframe = more material in the game?


Yeah, because more skills automatically means a better game, am I right? Streamlining unneccesary material has NEVER made a game better. Oh wait...

Can't argue against other claims of less variety since there's no more examples. I do find your philosophy of Oblivion being worse when comparing it to MW odd. Isn't it the same game in both situations?


With that definition of facts, I hope you're not a scientist. Personally, I just can't feel immersed in Morrowind. It stands out too much as a game and I never feel any "wow"-factor. I don't know, it simply doesn't work. That doesn't mean I'll claim that people who disagree with me lie.


Well, I think we can agree here though! :foodndrink:

Morrowind was the closest thing to flawless in my opinion. If I had to choose, I'd say this game should be 80% Morrowind, 15% Daggerfall, 5% Oblivion as far as mechanics, gameplay, story, lore depth, realism, and immersive depth is concerned.

ITT: People have different opinions about which Elder Scrolls games they like.

I agree with the person who said they just want Skyrim to be Skyrim. That's all it needs to be. Let's hope they take the good bits of Morrowind, the good bits of Oblivion, and maybe even the good bits of Arena and Daggerfall, and leave it at that. Even then there will be people who say Skyrim svcks, Skyrim is a disappointment, Skyrim is nothing/too much like Arena/Daggerfall/Morrowind/Oblivion. So why bother comparing it to them when all we have is a name and a teaser?

I think it's unavoidable for a game in a sequence of games to be compared to its predecessors. Each player has certain things that they except in games, and things that they have developed keen perception and/or sensitivity for. This can be any combination of different fields of game design including but not restricted to graphics, character design, voice acting, freedom of the setting, story, and combat mechanics. Therefore each player will rate every game on a personal scale.

That said, I personally like games with a massive amount of lore, a deep setting, a diverse atmoshpere, complex factions and politics, moral ambiguity, and generally stuff that challenges your thinking about certain topics and makes you ponder as you play. Morrowind is truly unique in depth and atmosphere and not only does it meet all of the qualities that I hold dear in a game, it actually shaped and refined my expectations towards computer games in general. Oblivion was an okay game, but I found it lacking in many of those fields I mentioned earlier. As for Skyrim, I'm just selfish and hoping that it will build heavily on the qualities that I like in a game.

Let V be V.
But re-add armor, weapons type, unique armors and weapons, grand number of factions that we saw in morrowind.