Oh god not this again : IV

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:03 am

So i guess its finally happened, weeks of work getting together a good load order. Mixing and matching mods for the best compatibility and most enjoyable game, it was all going so pleasantly. Sure i had some hiccups here or there but with the help of the forum i sorted many of these small issues out. In fact i was 15 hours in a solid playthrough and loving every minute of it. However somewhere, somehow, something went wrong. It all started when I was trying to figure out why the LOD mountains, weather conditions and OBGE lighting were uglier than my previous install. Basically I panicked and started nitpicking every single thing that seemed out of place, then in the All Natural thread i posted a screen shot only to have my fears confirmed that the weather conditions I was experiencing were not normal. So I went to work. I properly uninstalled OBGE Liquid Water, OBGE v2 Core and All Natural as these were the things that seemed to be causing some weird graphical things to occur. Then i reinstalled the most recent version of All Natural using the BAIN wizard and rebuilt the Bashed Patch. Now i hoped that things would be better but now im experiencing a host of new problems.

My fear is that somewhere along the way, even before i uninstalled all those mods, that I somehow blew my game up. Basically here are my main troubles pre-uninstallation and post-uninstallation......

+The mod Midas Magic has a spell called Midas Projectile Shield, its supposed to put up a big purple ball that blocks arrows. In my game the ball only comes up 1/5 casts of the spell. This may stem from a faulty installation as I installed the current version using BAIN, then installed over the top of it the latest patch.

+ Whatever the hell is going on http://www.flickr.com/photos/58887748@N08/5838393114/in/photostream#/photos/58887748@N08/5838393114/in/photostream/lightbox/, I dont like it. That is a beggar from Chorrol who i made a companion using CSR. Just had an epiphany typing this, perhaps this is the dreaded double-face bug that the UOP patches up with a spell? If you were looking at the screen when i took that screenshot there would have been black lines flashing across the top of his head in constant motion.

+Alright so given this http://www.flickr.com/photos/58887748@N08/5838268318/in/photostream/#/photos/58887748@N08/5838268318/in/photostream/lightbox/ was taken before i reinstalled the newest version of AN, but nonetheless it just doesnt look right. Also it almost looks as though a new version of the mod wouldnt fix it and its just an issue with my game. I have no clue, its not ugly, and it is a realistic weather condition to have no clouds and bright blue sky but i want to make sure its supposed to occur.
(SIDENOTE)- Whats with the moon in the middle of the day? Is this from Brumbeks Sky Textures or from All Natural and is it supposed to be there.

+Now we come to the piece-de-resistance http://www.flickr.com/photos/58887748@N08/5837845043/in/photostream/#/photos/58887748@N08/5837845043/in/photostream/lightbox/ is when i noticed things may be falling apart around me. This was taken near Weye next to the nearby Ayleid ruin. Its important to note that this was taken after the re-installation of AN and removal of OBGE. Its always seemed to be that when you have a chunk of land go missing like this the [censored] has really hit the fan.

So please save me! If anyone notices anything in the pictures that is fixable or could even just offer some affirmation that all hope is not lost I will greatly appreciate it.

doh forgot this

Spoiler

Active Mod Files:00  Oblivion.esm01  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.3]02  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]03  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 4.5bSI]04  Cobl Main.esm  [Version 1.73]05  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm  [Version 1.34]06  Mart's Monster Mod.esm  [Version 3.7b3p3]07  FCOM_Convergence.esm  [Version 0.9.9MB3]08  Armamentarium.esm  [Version 1.35]09  Artifacts.esm0A  Progress.esm  [Version 2.2]0B  CLS-Craftybits.esm0C  Toaster Says Share v3.esm0D  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.2.0]0E  DLCShiveringIsles.esp0F  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.4.0]10  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp11  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp12  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp13  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp++  FCOM_Francescos.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp  [Version 0.9.9]14  FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp  [Version 0.9.9]15  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.3]16  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.3]++  All Natural - MMM Patch.esp  [Version 1.3]17  Immersive Interiors.esp  [Version 0.8]18  Immersive Interiors - Lights Addon.esp  [Version 0.8]19  WindowLightingSystem.esp1A  Enhanced Economy.esp  [Version 5.2.2]1B  FormID Finder4.esp1C  ArmorOfTheWhiteFox.esp1D  ACCCGR SI.esp1E  ninjacowl.esp1F  Cobl Glue.esp  [Version 1.73]20  Cobl Si.esp  [Version 1.63]21  Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp22  Cheat Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp23  FCOM_BobsArmory.esp  [Version 0.9.9]24  Oblivion WarCry EV.esp  [Version 1.09]25  FCOM_WarCry.esp  [Version 0.9.9MB5]26  Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp  [Version 1.34]**  OMOBS_SI.esp  [Version 2.0]27  ArmamentariumArtifacts.esp  [Version 1.35]28  FCOM_Convergence.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]++  FCOM_SaferRoads.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  FCOM_LessRats.esp  [Version 0.9.9]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]29  Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2A  Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]2B  Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3f]++  Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.7b3p3]++  ArmamentariumLL4OOO.esp  [Version 2.01]++  ArmamentariumLLMagicOOO.esp  [Version 1.35]2C  OOO-WaterFish.esp  [Version 1.34]++  MMM-Cobl.esp  [Version 1.73]2D  Artifacts.esp++  Artifacts - ArmaCompleteAddon.esp  [Version 1.0]2E  Ash's Odd Jobs.esp2F  Kragenir's Death Quest.esp  [Version 2.1]30  KDQ - Rural Line Additions.esp31  Knights.esp++  FCOM_Knights.esp  [Version 0.9.9Mb3]32  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 1.0.5]33  xulStendarrValley.esp  [Version 1.2.2]34  xulTheHeath.esp35  XulEntiusGorge.esp36  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp  [Version 1.3.1]37  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp  [Version 1.2.1]38  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 1.2.2]39  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp  [Version 1.6.4]3A  KragenirsDeathQuest-LostCoast patch.esp  [Version 1.1]3B  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3.2]3C  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 1.3.1]3D  xulAncientYews.esp  [Version 1.4.3]3E  xulAncientRedwoods.esp  [Version 1.6]3F  xulCloudtopMountains.esp  [Version 1.0.3]40  KragenirsDeathQuest-CloudtopMountains patch.esp  [Version 1.1]41  xulArriusCreek.esp  [Version 1.1.3]42  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 1.1]43  xulRollingHills_EV.esp  [Version 1.3.3]44  KragenirsDeathQuest-RollingHills patch.esp  [Version 1.1]45  xulPantherRiver.esp46  xulRiverEthe.esp  [Version 1.0.2]47  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.1]48  xulImperialIsle.esp  [Version 1.6.6]49  xulBlackwoodForest.esp  [Version 1.1.0]4A  xulCheydinhalFalls.esp  [Version 1.0.1]4B  xulAspenWood.esp  [Version 1.0.2]4C  xulSkingradOutskirts.esp  [Version 1.0.1]4D  xulSnowdale.esp  [Version 1.0.2]4E  OOO-Snowdale Patch.esp4F  xulCliffsOfAnvil.esp50  OOOCliffsofAnvilPatch.esp  [Version 1.1]51  KragenirsDeathQuest-CliffsOfAnvil patch.esp  [Version 1.0]52  SetsunaDummyTraining.esp53  CLS-Craftybits.esp  [Version 6]54  Alternative Beginnings.esp  [Version 1.1.3]55  MidasSpells.esp56  ProgressGSD.esp  [Version 2.0]57  ProgressMBSP.esp  [Version 2.0]58  ProgressSBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]59  ProgressRBSP.esp  [Version 1.0]5A  ProgressRacial.esp5B  ProgressArmorer.esp  [Version 1.0]**  Cava Obscura - Cyrodiil.esp**  Cava Obscura - SI.esp**  Cava Obscura - Filter Patch For Mods.esp5C  Toaster Says Share Faction Recruitment.esp5D  bgBalancingEVCore.esp  [Version 10.52EV-D]5E  bgMagicEV.esp  [Version 1.7EV]++  bgMagicSpellTomes_for_WryeBash.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgMagicEVStartspells.esp  [Version 1.68EV]5F  bgMagicEVPaperChase.esp  [Version 1.68EV]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalClasses.esp  [Version 9.0EV-U]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalFangs.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]**  bgBalancingEVOptionalNPCDiversity, Vanilla.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D]++  bgBalancingEVOptionalFCOMAdditions.esp  [Version 10.]++  bgBalancingEVLAMEGlue.esp  [Version 10.0EV-D1.62EV]**  bgMagicEVShader.esp  [Version 1.7EV]60  bgMagicLightningbolt.esp61  Real Hunger, Cobl.esp  [Version 1.6.1]++  Cobl Filter Late MERGE ONLY.esp  [Version 1.53]62  Cobl Silent Equip Misc.esp  [Version 01]**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.3]63  Bashed Patch, 0.esp64  Weye_Farmstead.esp65  WatersideHovel.esp

Those two mods post Bashed Patch are very small, house only mods no scripts or anything. Also Cheat Bob's Armory is in the process of being removed but for right now its staying put until i can figure out why its linked up to my Bashed Patch.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:18 pm

Try disabling your Bashed Patch (in Wrye), running BOSS (a new one was JUST released: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=20516), ensuring that ALL green/italicized mods are UNCHECKED, and then Rebuild your Bashed Patch. When you Rebuild it, make sure that you not only merge your mods, but you import whatever you need to import based off of these guides:

http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/finishinstall/bashedpatch/fcombashedpatch (this will tell you what NOT to import)

and

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1200323-relz-wrye-bash-thread-68/ (Ctrl + F down to "Patch option reference (by Waruddar)", click the spoiler)

And then Rebuild. After you've done that, go into OBMM and do Archive Invalidation. Then start up your game and see if you're still having those problems. If you are, it's some kind of mod incompatibility, or your save could be messed up.

And the reason I'm telling you to do this is because ALL of those issues/screenshots you listed look like load order and graphic import bugs to me. Also, make sure that you do NOT have OBMM open at the same time as Wrye Bash; they don't play nice together. Use each app one at a time. I also suggest you go into OBMM's Settings and make sure "Never modify load order" is checked. Wrye Bash and BOSS should be doing your load order. Also make sure that "Lock Times" in Wrye Bash is OFF. You can get to that setting by right clicking on the "File" bar at the top of Wrye.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:34 pm

Some help:

Looks like the double face bug to me.

There are many times of the year in many parts of the real world where the moon is visible during daylight hours, and I'm fairly certain that's not a bug of any kind, and might even be there without a weather mod. There are also sometimes clear blue skies in the real world - I would only consider that an issue if it stays that way all the time. All Natural provides an .ini where you can adjust the hue of daylight, and instructions on how to use that .ini, if the overall coloring doesn't suit you.

Missing land can be due to a mod, but it also sometimes happen in the vanilla game, and is a known bug. That particular instance of it is a vanilla bug, and is fixed by http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=30350.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:19 pm

Very strange i reloaded a save and the terrain was back also the save has a purple checkbox next to it.

Ill go through with your advice and hope it solves some of the other issues im having.

Well to the above posters I must say you have put my mind at relative ease. Seeing as how that exact area is a problem spot. Also ill adjust the ini and consult the All Natural thread for any help. Thank you for giving me hope!

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:39 am

If you are having terrain glitches around Fanacasecul, that is almost certainly a load order bug, my friend. Make sure Lock Times are off, run BOSS.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:58 pm

#2 is the double face bug. Easily undone by the UOP spell.

#3 is a standard weather from AN which is normal. In fact, we just had that very thing here in California today, along with 101 degree heat. Fun. Your moon being there is normal as well as the bluish smaller one has a variable cycle.

#4 is the "missing landscape bug" which recent versions of the UOP Supplementa have attempted to solve. You are not using the UOPS though, so you don't have those fixes. The link Khettienna gave you was an early attempt at solving it which isn't actually effective. It's temporary though, exit and reload and it will fix itself. The Ayleid ruin by Weye is where you were obviously, and that's one of the known locations for the bug.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:12 pm

If you are having terrain glitches around Fanacasecul, that is almost certainly a load order bug, my friend. Make sure Lock Times are off, run BOSS.

It's a vanilla bug that comes and goes. It's a distinct memory I have from playing the game before I knew about mods. XD

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:11 am

What does the "lock times" option in Bash do?

I think I'm one of very few people in existence who has been able to manage doing the load order myself in OBMM without BOSS. Unless my poor framerate is somehow a result of a bad load order

Also I've always been afraid to have both OBMM and Bash open at the same time and have never done it so good to know I'm not just being paranoid.

But I agree that the moon being visible during the day probably isn't a bug, and if it is, well, I consider it a feature! heh

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:32 am

palidoo: Lock Times prevents outside sources from editing your load order. I usually keep it on, as I use BOSS as a guideline now as opposed to the actual rule (so that BOSS can't actually change anything and I can read through the BOSS Log and make the changes myself).

Other known locations for the Missing Landscape bug include Fort Magia, and two not very special cells between Bravil and Leyawiin on the Green Road (a couple bandits spawn by a small jetty in the area).

As has been stated, UOPS has attempted to fix this, but even the effectiveness of that is unknown at the time.

No, the moon being visible during the day is not a bug at all. The real moon can be seen during the day, after all, so why can't Nirn's? And also, why can't Nirn have cloudless days, either, when the real world does, too?

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:44 am

Alright just a quick update. I am using the UOPS but have not been using the supplemental patches so thats my own blunder. My load order has been stable as I always use BOSS to run it so no problem there. Also please keep in mind that I was not complaining about the moon or the blue sky and in fact enjoy those features, I just wanted to make sure it WAS something that's meant to occur. Really my only trouble with the clear weather conditions is how awful some of the LOD terrains look so if anyone has an alternative fix or mod that wont drop my FPS too harshly I would appreciate the help.

After some fixing it seems the bugs have either worked themselves out or are easily fixed using the provided measures.

Lastly, after running Archive Invalidated and TES LOD GEN for the first time in a few weeks Ive found that the All Natural and overall weather conditions appear to be returning to their former glory. Only time will tell here as the weather condition when i loaded up the save ended up being one of the types that never seems to give me problems and looks quite nice. In fact the only issue ive had tends to be when the entirety of the sky is one weather condition/texture yet the entire horizon seems to be a completely different weather pattern or lack any weather at all. Maybe this will be fixed by the recent install or by the measures Ive already taken but if it occurs again ill be sure to post it. I did post the screen earlier in the All Natural thread and a commenter noted that the problem may be severe which got be off on this tangent in the first place.

So for now all seems well and I'm just looking for a view distance mod that will either fix the lod terrains or just block them out all together. Ill continue tweaking the vanilla Oblivion graphics settings and working the various ini's. Thank you for all the help and suggestions.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:38 pm

I have yet to find any mod that makes distant land appealing. The single best mod for improving it is Koldorn's LOD Noise Replacer. Beyond that mod, I've tried all the LOD textures and normal maps I could find, and it still looks pretty crummy. Not for lack of skill on the parts of the texture artists, of course, that's just how it is. The closest I've come to happy is to use the vanilla normal maps, blur the daylights out of some mid-rez LOD textures, and set All Natural's fog distance to really super duper close. You know, to just make distant land as indistinct as possible, without hiding it entirely.

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:59 am

I have yet to find any mod that makes distant land appealing. The single best mod for improving it is Koldorn's LOD Noise Replacer. Beyond that mod, I've tried all the LOD textures and normal maps I could find, and it still looks pretty crummy. Not for lack of skill on the parts of the texture artists, of course, that's just how it is. The closest I've come to happy is to use the vanilla normal maps, blur the daylights out of some mid-rez LOD textures, and set All Natural's fog distance to really super duper close. You know, to just make distant land as indistinct as possible, without hiding it entirely.

Aye, this is sadly true. I too have tried quite a few Landscape LOD replacers. Some are quite nice at certain specific distances. None is perfect. My favorite is http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=18497 (which I converted to BAIN), a mixture of Blade9722 and Quarl. At very far distance the view can be magnificent! There are times I simply stop what I'm doing and stare at far scenery for minutes with this installed. Its drawback is that at close range it is satisfactory at best and in certain situations can be pug-ugly. That seems to be a general rule: Landscape LODs that look great far off are weak up close while those that look good up close are weak (bland) far off. Some of course take a middle approach. They look okay at all distances but never truly shine (compared to the extremes approaches).

Another problem with high-quality Landscape LOD replacers is that in a heavily modded game they are apt to be themselves replaced by other mods that supply their own LODs. Elsweyr-Anequina and some ULs come to mind. One ends up with a hodgepodge of high-res LODs mixed with lesser-res stuff.

A while back I dabbled a bit with Landscape LOD. My results were / are feeble at best. My original intent was to produce something akin to Blade9722's high-res output, but taking into account my many landscape altering mods. That never panned out. In fact, I ended up going the opposite way. The one thing mine were /are good at is the near-field stuff. Well, that and better reflecting my installed mods at distance. Here's a capture showing my work with the 60.00.00.32 quad, the one housing IC and stretching east to Cheydinhal.

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn303/Decrepit_Waste/ESIV%20errors/LandscapeLODImpIsle1.jpg

To me (and I admit bias) its pluses are:

It blends in very well at near distance. In fact it's hard to tell where the LOD kicks in. Those circles surrounding missing rocks give it away of course. Otherwise there is little blurring or distortion at the switchover point.
Features like NR+B added roads, including the nice dug-out sloped road at the northern end of the Imp Isle North Bridge, are now visible at distance. They never were before.

The minus:

Even at close distance my LOD is somewhat bland and lacking detail.
At far distances it is even blander. Too bland.
Stuff like those dark rock circles is distracting.
My LODs are created with landscape-altering mods in-place. They are specific to my particular load-order and thus not suitable for general distribution. This is of course beside the point since they are not good enough for distribution.

Oddly, I liked the 60.00.00.32 LOD well enough to keep it active. It's the only quad where all three self-generated LOD files (normal, color, and mesh) were good enough to use. A few other quads use some mixture of the three, but never all together. I abandoned the project due to technical difficulties (CS(E) constantly crashing while generating certain quads, those yucky partly black quads, etc.). Additionally, there just doesn't seem to be much info available on how to produce high-quality high-res Landscape LODs.

-Decrepit-

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:10 am

I use http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=32451 with http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=32709.