So i saw a thread earlier where several people were arguing that your character should naturally become all powerful(specifically able to blow away groups of difficult enemies in one spell) just by mastering skills....While there is already a system in place that allows them to do this called [Difficulty Slider] they were voicing that it should be standard in the game that you naturally gain godly levels of power once you master disciplines.....and their response to people who dont enjoy these all powerful god characters was..."dont like it, dont master the skill"....so theyre basically saying you have to stop playing the style you enjoy if you dont want to become a ridiculously overpowered god character.

First i think asking people to stop playing the way they enjoy so they dont achieve the mastery is a little crazy...and

Personally i prefer the challenge of having to think through stategies/etc to defeat enemies rather than blowing them all away with a single spell....and i dont want that challenge to just dissapear once i master a skill.... to me that sounds utterly ridiculous and not in the least bit fun or enjoyable.

the difficulty slider is there to do this exact thing....it makes everyone else weaker thus making you this super overpowered character, allowing you to become this all powerful one you want. why force other people to stop playing just because you dont want to use options that are already available...thats not much of a choice.

Am i alone and everyone really enjoys these characters that can explode groups of difficult enemies with a single spell? Or what are some others thoughts on being ridiculously powerful outside of moving the difficulty slider, people want it to be a natural effect of working at one discipline for a long time? cause i dont.

edit: semi-topic of characters being great: i also love the idea of perk limits making each character wind up unique at the end now

I think it is less of a "I want to be all powerful!" thing, and more of a "Why did I even bother leveling up" thing.... When there is no reward for it, because your enemies keep changing and getting as powerful as you are, then there is no achievement.

Level-scaling is the culprit, and I hope they've fixed the issues. I want there to be some enemies that are always tough, and some that are completely underpowered once you reach your peak.

I agree with the above post, but I also see what you're saying, and I agree. However, Bethesda is putting in two ways to become god at some skill, you have to master it and put perks into it. For instance, there were two path modes for the shield, one for offensive shield techniques(bashing people with it) and one for defensive(blocking). You could become a god with the shield, but only once youve pumped 20 perks into this skill, and mastered it. But I do think the argument of don't like it, don't master it is stupid, it would ruin the gameplay.

I liked some of the way mastering your skills in Oblivion where you gained access to different attack maneuvers as a master with blades. I don't really like the idea of being able to just annihilate any enemy with full master skills, if you wanted that you could just turn on the god mode in console. If mastering a skill allowed to you be just a bit stronger than your enemy but not enough where its like swatting a fly then that would be where you will find me.

Its a difficult topic to address, I dont want my character to sail through the game, but I dont want to be locked in a fight to the death with one bandit and a mudcrab. Your idea of just using the difficulty slider at bits where I want challenges, then turn it down for enemies I feel I should sail through, seems a tad bit impractical.

Oh boy, I can see the fires coming...
But seriously, for the last time, I don't want to be all-powerful, but I would like sword swinging and spell slinging to feel like I'm doing more than just poking enemies with a stick. Some people might like cherry tapping and enemy to death, but I don't. I think powerful spells should be able to take out a bunch of mooks, but there are of course some powerful enemies that can stand up to powerful spells, no matter what end I slide the difficulty slider to.

I don't always want to be fighting strong enemies there should be a few that stay a certain level and other like dragons that scale with your level.

Personally I hope god-mode characters are out this time around.. Morrowind and Oblivion reach a point where you're powerful enough that it basically negates the entire combat portion of the gameplay. I still want to be enjoying battles at the end game, rather than skipping through them very quickly

When I am not a Demi-god by level 60-70, there is something wrong with the game.
I would like a rewarding progression of power.

Personally, uber characters bore me, so I don't play them. I don't care if somebody else does though.

I usually stick to skill/level-uncapper when they're out.
So in some attributes you might remain rather weak, in others you reach mastery (and beyond).
That's the thing about TES/the recent Fallouts: People who enjoy the games & play for a long time become master in everything.
I increased difficulty in both Morrowind & Fallout 3/NV when I leveled up. I wonder if it will be different this time.

Well said, gpstr. The key words being "I don't care if somebody else does".

More people on this forum should have that attitude. If people here want to argue about what is best for everyone's experience, they should go to a forum for a MP game. There should be no arguing about "how the game should play" based on personal preference anywhere on this forum.

@OP : We're talking about TES here, people. So either kindly direct your game "balance" concerns to where Bethesda can see them and make a difference, or simply hold your peace when someone else says that the way they want to play is "the right way".

It comes down to choices for me. I want the ability to become an all powerful character if I put the hours into my guy. And I *have* played in a style where my characters don't become all powerful, so for me it's a legitimate argument to say "don't play that way". When you design the game so that no one character can become all powerful, you lose an option on how to play the game. And I'm all for the most options possible.

But.......whatever. That's pretty much the response I've come to in the last few months about Skyrim. I'm excited, but what I want doesn't matter at all, so meh.

this makes sense

id say real low level creatures/enemies remain...low level / easy to kill

everything else, scaled...

I hate playing as a GodMode type Character so I hope it's harder or impossible to be that type of character.

While it's boring to become an "uber" / all-powerful character (who just slaughters their way effortlessly though everything and faces no challenge), one still wants to have their character feel at least somewhat powerful. So, it's nice to run across at least some lower-level, easily slaughtered enemies - it gives you that sense of accomplishment, recognition that you have gained in power since the times that those guys gave you trouble.


Basically, it svcks to gain levels and increase skills, but not have any sense that you've actually gotten stronger/tougher/etc. One of the (several) flaws of the vanilla Oblivion level scaling.

Having played Oblivion Hardmode and Demon's Souls, I can tell you that there's nothing more fun than surviving against impossible odds!


I think people are simply tired of having issues with Goblin Warlords, etc. Health scaling kinda svcked in Oblivion.

Sorry but based on the posts im seeing, it is exactly that "i want to be all powerful" thing that people are wanting. AS you can see from the posts below yours which ill quote, i could also point you to the op of the other thread who wishes to destroy handfulls of strong enemies with a single spell. While i agree with you that level scaling is a problem, i think there is already a perfectly reasonable option in place that allows them to achieve this level of power, the difficulty slider. I think its completely ridiculous for them to want to force others who dont want to be stupidly dumb strong to stop mastering the skills they enjoy or else they will become this super over powered character.

Its obviously just my opinion but once you actually stop having to try to do or think about how you go about doing anything anything(by this i mean enemies no longer presenting a challenge, not having to use strategy to defeat them etc) the game just is infintely boring at that point and i dont think that just by working hard at a skill you enjoy that you should naturally become that powerful.

Again ill say the difficulty slider is a perfectly reasonable way to obtain this level of power without forcing others who dont like the godmode aspect to stop playing the game for fear of becoming that strong and losing interest. And are people really not able to tell the difference when leveling up/obtaining new armor/weapons?...or is it just that they want the different to be astronomical.



I would have to disagree(my opinion)....i enjoy the game and i enjoy the challenge of the game , like i said if it you naturally gained that power just by leveling....and you could dispatch everything with little to zero thought/effort.....i would completely lose interest as that would be incredibly boring to me, and i dont want to be forced to STOP LEVELING/using the skills i enjoy if i didnt want to become that powerful.



What is so wrong about using the difficulty slider to make yourself all powerful?(thats not directed at you really but id like your opinion) I would hate if having put many hours into my character that he became all powerful.

People say its all about choice, the difficulty slider is there to make everything weaker(in turn making you all powerful=problem solved). So thats a reasonable choice. But when they say it should occur naturally just by putting lots of hours in i completely disagree with that, and id have to say the dont like it dont use it argument doesnt work there at all, theyre basically telling you to stop playing the way you enjoy or stop leveling if you dont like it. That seems like the complete opposite of having choices.(again difficulty slider is a choice for those who wish the enemies to be easier=them wanting to be all powerful so it works out that way)

The way I see it, most common beasts and the such should not really scale very far. Humanoid enemies though should to some extent be able to match or exceed you at times, after all you yourself are still limited by the same overall potential and mortal bodies they possess. Things like dragons and other more supernal beings should be an ever-present threat that cannot be bypassed by levels and gear, due to their nature and not being constrained to the same limits of mortal bodies.

These are two different issues. Level scaling was clearly the problem, but wanting to be incredibly powerful and able to destroy handfulls of strong enemies with a single spell is a different idea entirely(which is what this thread is moreso talking about based on what i saw in the other thread of people asking for these levels of godliness)

Im all for a feeling of accomplishment as in you just starting out and taking 6 hits to kill a wolf or whatever...then after you level up and gain new armor/weapons you can take 80% of its health in one hit. Stuff like that. But these people are asking for godlike abilities. Which personally i dont think should just come naturally by spending lots of time developing a skill because that makes it so all of those who dont enjoy that style have to just stop playing.

The difficulty slider makes things even less natural than the level-scaling felt....

Anyways, we can both agree we want a challenge, what I can't agree on is that we shouldn't be rewarded for leveling up. For example, say you are in a dungeon at level 2 and a troll kills you, your second attempt you kill it but only after a very long fight and you are on your last leg. Now, let's say 48 levels later you see a similar troll. This time it takes only a few swift blows to kill the troll. Is there no sense of accomplishment in that?

To me that is the definition of character development.... And it was completely lacking in Oblivion because your enemies were scaled to you. Difficulty slider is viable, but you shouldn't need one is what I'm saying.

Edit- Oh and just to re-iterate, I do NOT want my character to be all powerful and kill everything in 2 seconds once I max out my perks.... I just want there to be a variation of enemy difficulty.

I Play Oblivion on 100% difficulty. My highest level character is 67, and has mastered all of her primary skills and most of her secondary. However, even though she is a tough-as-nails vampire who can easily crush normal bandits and such, running into a lich or other high caster can get dicey if a few things go wrong, and with my modified version of Curse of Hircine...miss a block against a werewolf and she's dead in 1-2 hits. She can kill a wolf in one swing of her weapon, even a level 67 wolf, but an ogre? Different story altogether.

My idea of becoming powerful is that when I master a discipline, I now have more options. I never want there to be a day where I can cruise through the game (any game) and nothing challenge me anymore. So, to me, having mobs level up with me is just fine.

No, I will stand beside you
*puts on flameproof jacket*

IMO, the difficulty slider should work like this:

• "Very Hard" difficulty should be damn hard, no matter what class, no mater what perks or spells and no matter what level your character is - if you can one-shot enemies, there should be enemies that can one-shot you
  
  
• "Normal" difficulty should be balanced and fun for the majority of players
  
  
• "Easy" difficulty should be easy, the character should be overpowered and fun for players who enjoy the feeling of being all-powerful, like a demigod.

If the game is too easy on "Very Hard" then it is a broken game that will need fixing with mods.

I think your missing what im saying, i agree with you in that they should go down quicker and easier after leveling.....but the level of power these people are describing as wanting is godliness(being able to destroy handfulls of enemies with a single spell). Which would take no thought preparation skill or anything really...while i think you could do this to rats or something very very minor, i dont think you should reach that level of ubergod.

Level scaling is a problem but the ideas im talking about did not have anything to do with level scaling but moreso becoming HOLY CRAP SO powerful. And when i say powerful, they cited lore of wizards toppling armies by themselves and all that.



Man i agree with this for sure all the way. "after all you yourself are still limited by the same overall potential and mortal bodies they possess." And that is where the whole argument comes in. The other people dont think you should be limited by your mortal body as they say you should be able to attain the level of power of these powerful wizards in legends that can destroy armies and the like. they want this "choice"

But they want that "choice" as they call it, to just come naturally by spending a lot of time working on your character....THIS is what i disagree with. I dont want to have to stop leveling or working at skills because im bound to become an uber god.

this