Have you ever noticed how in the progression of this game series, several minor deities and mythologies have slowly either disappeared or been merged together? I think I may have figured out a pretty clever and perhaps intentional retcon explaining this on the part of the devs. It's been stated that at the end of every Kalpa that Akatosh appears and consumes Nirn. Apparently during this process, certain et'Ada cease to exist. We have evidence of this in the statement that Umaril's father was an old god from a previous Kalpa who presumably no longer exists, and that Morihus was Kyne's nephew, not her son, which would imply that the Bull-god's father or mother was a lesser Aedra whose characteristics were possibly absorbed into other Aedra as time goes by.

There's a real world precedent for this in the way our own mythologies and world religions form and alter over time. Let's pick one of the less controversial examples - Hercules, the Roman/Greek culture hero (chosen because he's a prime example who is not worshiped by any living person, and thus safe for discussion here). Hercules is based on Heracles, whom in turn was an amalgam of many previous local culture heroes of Greek and proto-Greek city states and farming communities. What began as hundreds of exploits by dozens of men were eventually condensed into one almighty demigod. Very few or none of the original names or tales remain. We have Hercules, who himself was originally a separate man from Heracles but who absorbed all of his feats and tales as well. He ate him to become him. As do the pantheons of Tamriel eat lesser mythologies and et'Ada , absorbing their abilities and histories.

Perhaps this works not only on a metaphorical level but also a metaphysical one. Perhaps beings like Umaril's father literally cease to be altogether and really do have their traits absorbed by various other culture heroes and gods. Perhaps the Aedra, being part of Mundus itself, are susceptible to changes within the cultural attitudes and customs of its sentient races. The pantheons have been altered several times before reaching their current states, and may be altered several more times before the end.


Side note: As a potential future topic, I have observed the strangeness in the apparent fact that Aedra, who represent stasis, can reproduce with mortals and Daedra, who represent change, supposedly can not..this was challenged, however, when I remembered that Molag Bal has reproduced more than once. Is it possible that there is a bit of Aedra in every Daedra Prince, and vice versa? There would just about have to be to keep them from dissipating altogether. This would reinforce my hypothesis that every Daedra Lord uses a mortal person or the remains of one as a sort of focus or anchor to his own realm. If not a person than a piece of an earth bone, or some other creatia.

On the note of aedra and daedra having a bit of each other i quite agree, to a further degree actually. Suffice it to say my idea is that aedra and daedra practically originated from the same tree, just different branches, because of this change is possible, where a leaf goes from one branch to another, basically you start at the base, and right at the base the tree splits, this further progresses to be the left side and the right side (aedra side and daedra side)

Kalpas and all that nonsense are just that, nonsesne. Put about by scheming elves to lure good humans into elven debauchery and foolish mysticism.

As has been said many times previous, we should listen the most awesome guys ever, Lorkhan and Pelinal, and start killing elves in their sleep.

Can you give an example?

Ebonarm would probably be the biggest example.

But really, Kalpas are nonsense. And Akatosh is a looney dragon who serves as Lorkhan's dragon mount he got at level 76.

And not just in their sleep, but while they're eating, drinking, walking, smoking, going to the bathroom (they do do that right?), and hell anytime anywhere while they're doing anything.

Hurray for Sword-Theory!

Agreed. Akatosh is a loon, so lets uncoil him.

I don't think they can get off the stapled on underpants.

Yes, Sword-Theory for ever!

Sword Theory?

Pelinal's tactics, approximately "the only good Ayleid is a dead Ayleid".

Ahh, right. Thank you Lord Dogsbody.

If you're going to derail a topic, at least, ya know, be funny about it.

I agree with MK on this one.
This has/had a great potentiality to be very interesting, and have been waiting all day for interesting discussion.

To OP:

I think your point is correct: myths and gods together shape myths and gods. To your Kalpa example I would add another example (if you're inclined to believe its factuality): the Tribunal reshaping mythical history via the Heart of Lorkhan. As for the Aedra and Daedra being interrelated, given the way the different http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/varietiesoffaith.shtmlthat seems very plausible.

A side note on your "real world" example. Notice that Heracles has no horse, wears a lion skin, and fights with a club. He's way older than Greek city-states. He's even way older the the world Homer was talking about (although Homer sort of mixed the pre-city-state Greek world with the city-state Greek world).

Seeing as gods themselves need worshippers and believers to literally exist I could certainly believe that. And I think something very similar (almost?) happened with Tsun (though it may not have: there IS still record of his existence since we know about him). I wanna say that happened with Jhunal too.


I'm not too sure about the last bit. How do you mean focus point? I always saw it this way: that Mundus anchors existence, allowing Oblivion and everything else to exist. I never put too much thought into it after that.

No MK, If you're going to derail a topic, don't as the mods get grumpy even if you are funny about it. Well, I certainly do.

Is this why there's only the "Temple of the One" in the Imperial City?

You mean because pantheons is being changed and consumed to others?

Melios,

The One is a monotheistic Godhead deity popularized by the Alessian Order during the 1st Era.

As to the original question,
Yes, some absorption (and separation) is surely occurring. However, we must not make the mistake of assuming that because something is not featured in game it suddenly disappeared from the world. Surely Ebonarm, and other lesser deities like him, are still worshiped in areas of Tamriel.

Monas,
Ayaan-Si

Plus its better to view the Aedra/Daedra as part of spectrum rather then being diametrically opposed in some sense...

I think you need a comma after "don't", it took me forever to try and figure out what exactly you were saying...

Seconded. <_<

Perhaps as of now..but in ten years? Twenty? 100? It seems as though certain pantheons continue to absorb others, and shrink themselves. It's almost as if some devs and ex-devs are subtly moving towards a more unified Tamriel, and possibly eventually even a sort of Monotheistic version of the Divines, all combined into one. I know I am way ahead of myself there, but in MK's Love Letter from the Fifth Era, the word "God" in the singular is mentioned more than once. We must also remember that in such a short period of time, the Church of Cyrodill seems to have basically unified. Instead of the various cults of Julianos, Talos, Mara and the like fighting amongst themselves for followers or members, it seems as though the Church is pretty much one nationwide institution with very little variety from town to town in the virtues it preaches. Each deity is represented in each Church. Could it be that many years from now the homogenization continues to the extent that these deities are further condensed or relegated to the positions of Saints, as the Tribunal did on Morrowind?




Here's how I look at it - Padomay surrounds Anu, both on a universal and planetary scale. Just as Oblivion surrounds Mundus, so do the realms of the Princes surround smaller versions of Mundus - Anuic stabilizers of a sort. After all, the Deadlands isn't Oblivion itself. Oh no...Oblivion is that endless, dark water between realms. The Realms of the Princes are something altogether different, both Anu and Padomay - just like Nirn itself. While Nirn is more Anu, the Realms are more Padomay with a little stasis in the center as an anchoring point to give them substance. Otherwise I believe they would be far too volatile and the random energy would be absorbed into Oblivion with most of the Padameic energy in the universe.