???

In all seriousness, I've done some research and come up rather short. What do we know of the religious beliefs of the Reachmen? I've come across many references to the "Old Gods", but who on mundus are these Gods? Are we talking the pre-Alessian Nordic pantheon, or something even older, shadier? What in particular separates "Hedge-Magic" from the sort of magic the Mages Guild traditionally advocates?

Both prompts toward actual established lore and creative servings of monkeytruth are welcome. It'd be nice to get to the bottom of this, and work out some sort of picture of the culture the Forsworn are fighting for.

People noted there were shrines to the divines in forsworn redoubts; maybe left overs, maybe they have their own pantheon or copy paste bretony pantheon from "Varieties of Faith in the Empire". Would they share the Nordic pantheon when they hate each other so much ? Although beast magic may imply similar animal worship.

Or they may bear similarities to witch covens littered all around ? But there's a lot of those... at least in daggerfall And a lot of those worship daedra though maybe they worship hircine ? they're not werecreatures though.

There's a number of witch gatherings all around skyrim; but the only coven featured by name is Glenmoril Coven in the companions questline and they've all turned into evil hagravens this time around for who knows why.

You see a number a hagravens in the employ for the forsworn who are credited with the creation of the briarhearts, but is hagraven magic the same kind of Hedge-Magic I have no idea. Since you only see hagravens performing the ritual. And there's many more hagravens that live on their on little circles. So maybe they're only under contract for power like the deal with the companions, or the legend of red eagle.

PGE 1 ed. also worded that they learned their beast magic from nearby orc villages; but does anyone know anything about orc beast-magic?

The Mages Guild maybe playing politics in regard to banning reach magic; but there's nothing specific shown, they do raise the dead like necromancers though.

From what I can tell Hagravens are a developed form of your average Reachwoman witch, and their magic appears to be the final expression of the "Hedge-Magic" the Mages Guild are so dismissive of. All this seems likely.

The problem of the Reach pantheon is a little trickier though. I've seen it suggested that due to the Hagraven's obsession with the removal (and replacement) of hearts, the would naturally be Lorkhan worshippers - I think this is likely too. I wouldn't imagine their Lorkhan (whatever they call him) would resemble Shor or Shezzar that much. When looking at the pantheons we have been left, it's difficult to see how they would translate into Reach-culture:


BRETONY: Akatosh, Magnus, Y'ffre, Dibella, Arkay, Zenithar, Mara, Stendarr, Kynareth, Julianos, Sheor, Phynaster
SKYRIM: Alduin, Dibella, Orkey, Tsun, Mara, Stuhn, Kyne, Jhunal, Shor, Ysmir, Herma-Mora, Maloch

The Breton gods do seem like a better fit, but still not perfect. Some witches take part in Daedra worship, you say? That sounds interesting.

I doubt they follow the Breton religion to the letter, from what I've seen they are more inclined to a mix of animal god worship and some of the nine divines.

The Reachmen kind of remind me of Gaulish Druids, so I could see Lorkhan or Sheor worshop, since they're Bretons.
I think that Sheor started off as a god of crop failure, in the Breton Mythos. Keep him happy and he won't mess with your crops.
And Ancient Druids were all about sacrificing so that the gods wouldn't take their crops.

I thought the Reachmen/Forsworn revered Hag Ravens?

Well they do have a temple of Dibella and capture one of Dibella her most important agents, so I'd say they worship her at least in someway.

A temple of Dibella? Where would that be?

Temple is the wrong word, but in one of their strongholds they have a shrine to Dibella, and I think I saw another shrine in another location but I'm not entirely sure about that. So at least one, and kidnapping Dibella her agent. Those things at least to me suggest a worship of Dibella.

Okay, I've done some more scrying of Tamrielic religious texts and have come up with a preliminarily list of possible "Old Gods" for the Reachmen. Any thoughts?


Y'ffre (Jephre)
Lorkhan
Jode
Jone
Hircine
Arkay
Dibella
Kynareth
Sanguine
Mephala
Malak
Magnus

Jhunal?
Phynaster?

I doubt Arkay is in the list... He's kind of against Necromancy and changing the dead and all that. I'd change Lorkhan to Shor, but same diff.

I wonder what you based the rest on the list on, personally I find Sanquine & Mephala incredibly unlikely...

Arkay's presence is an odd one. The Nordic Orkey has a pretty much entirely negative influence on them mythologically, yet he is still revered as a God. Arkey would appear as one of those bad spirits, in a Reachman's "House of Troubles".

I use Lorkhan over Shor as Shor is a Nordic Warrior-God-King, who wouldn't immediately seem to appeal. The Breton Sheor doesn't quite fit either, but is a better option (he is the "Bad Man" after all). With the Reachmen's obsession with hearts, the replacement of hearts, and the woods, I think they might be the last true Lorkhan worshippers left. The Reachmen are differentiated from the Bretons and the Nords by sharing a stronger ancestral link with the Aldmer, so their Gods should as a whole resemble the Altmer or Bosmeri pantheon more than the Nordic (and have nothing in common with the Alessian). Plus Lorkhan is the coolest name, and "Doom Drum" just sounds like the sort of thing they'd be all about.

There is some evidence of Daedra worship in there, but it's not entirely clear who, so I threw a few pagany, hedonistic daedra in there. You could just as easily argue for Dagon, Molag Bal, even Azura and Sheogorath, but I picked these, partly out of whim, partly from an educated guess. Herma-Mora probably deserves a place on the list. Likewise the Moon-Worship is a wild stab in the dark.

The are likely to have their own names for most if not all of these Gods. I'd be fascinated to know if anyone else has any insight?

I've said it once and I'll say it again: those shrines are probably there just to be desecrated. They revere hagravens, and one of the hag's favorite things to do is kill pretty things, so the Dibella shrines are without a doubt just there as an insult to the Nord's. They obviously don't like Kyne, given their hatred for spriggans. There might be a connection between those briarhearts and Lorkhan, though.

Mephala I don't really see as the only reason the Forsworn are currently 'spinning webs' is to get their lands back. Hircine is a definite possibility if only for stylistic reasons. If the Glenmoril witches have a connection to the Reachmen then its likely they revere him. I don't think Y'ffre has any dealings with mortals outside of Valenwood, but I could be wrong. I haven't seen any revelry among the Forsworn so I don't know about Sanguine. I think Namira might be a possibility, as the Lady of Decay just seems fitting for them. Plus Namira is basically the twisted sister of Kyne, and the Reachmen don't like Kyne so they may revere Namira for that reason.

I really hope Beth clears some of this up in DLC.