Firstly if you don't know what Im referring to, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjbx6-KQoRg Oblivion E3 presentations were more than a little misleading, to say the least, espcially about AI. I counted 10 misleading things in that segment alone.

So do we think beth has learned their lesson and won't be showing topics not 100% certain to make the cut, or do we think we'll be promised NPC's that actually come to life and visit your house on your birthday, along side cities that the developers actually went out and built with their own tired hands that you can visit at will? I would add a poll since its such a new and crazy idea, but it seems to me that its basicly a way to ask a quesiton where half the possible answers are replaced with I AGREE WITH OP.

As mandatory flame protection needed to survive this forum nowerdays:
1) Im not bashing beff. Poking fun, yes, insulting and moaning about, no, so everyone can put the pitchforks back. Beth are still the best and todd is still the man, but do we think they'll be doing what everyone else does (FABLEEEE) and telling a few porkies?

2) Yes, at some point in time since the creation of man, this topic has probably been created, and yes, Im sure I could search through 30000 topics with E3 in the title to find it and have my social curiosity sated, but since we are so close to E3 I think its relevent enough, right?

I don't think we need to worry about exaggerations this time around. When Oblivion was being released, Morrowind was a bit of an aberration -- the other TES games weren't as wildly popular. So the team was under pressure to sell this game that they knew was good, as fantastic -- hoping to bring that audience back. Now, with two very succeful games, they don't need to worry as much about impressing people. People know what TES is about, what quality to expect, etc.

Plus, the fans have long memories -- why do that again? It'd come back to bite them eventually.

Side-note: Calling people out by name? Ouch.

The Oblivion Incident.
I think it's a fair assumption to say Bethesda has learned its lesson.
But just to be on the safe side, use your discernement.

What was Fallout 3's E3 presentation like? That would be a closer indication.

One thing I noticed to be misleading in that video besides the obvious. "There are 9 major cities in the game and dozens ofsmaller settlements." That 9 includes Kvatch, which is destroyed, and there are only 10 towns, ranging from 2-8 buildings, plus about 6-8 house/farms/estates.

Anyway, I think we will have to be cautious going in, but I feel Bethesda is being more honest this time, admitting when they're unsure of how things will work out and all that.

I think we'll see things at E3 we won't see in game... but not like Oblivion, they most likely learned their lesson there. Especially since release is only 5 months away.

They removed Sutch, remember? And turned it into a fort.

Remember that the people promoting this game are salesmen and all good salesmen have silver tongues.
I would always take any information with a healthy dose of scepticism.

The reason Fable has to have porkies told about it is that no one sane would buy it, I borrowed it off a friend just to see. Glad I saved my ￡30. The Elder Scrolls on the other hand actually has substance to it and therefore needs no lies telling about it. Quality is quality and it always wins through in the end (I hope), whereas Fable is, well it svcks Llama's, simple as.

I think if anything we will get less information than we want anyway.

Your right actually that was a bit uncalled for... changed it.

Really, morrowind wasn't that popular? Im not old enough to remember daggerfall or Arenas release but I always got the impression DF and A where underground nerd games and morrowind made the gnere mainstream. (with its award winning graphics and all)

And I cant remember fallouts presentation either actually. If they lied there I'll be veeeerry caustious but hopefully that won't be the case

And dragonebone, yeah they have been more honest (not sure about spell mixing, not sure about spell creation, etc etc)

I think some content was removed because of disc space. And Radiant AI was downgraded for Oblivion because they encountered unexpected variables late in development (I think nearly everyone was killable, but they didn't have time to acknowledge this). But Bethesda has learned its lesson this time.

Oblivion's E3 presentation was earlier on in development. Back then they didn't even have access to the Xbox 360 yet, so they didn't know their limitations, which is one of the reasons why the shadows on items and furniture thing didn't make it in in the end. But now we're only half a year away I wouldn't worry about any features presented here not making it into the game.

Obviously the AI demo here was exaggerated, so do take things with a grain of salt.

LOL.

I acutally loved fable :dance: Not half as much as elder scrolls but it was the first game where I felt WEIGHT for my desisions. Knights of the Republic: Being a dodgy swine to 5 peple ment that 5 people didn't like you and you looked like a bit of a pasty nerd/ voldemort. Eastern RPGs: being a dodgy swine to 5 people ment EVERYONE EVER DISTRUSTS YOU FOR THE REST OF THE GAME UNTIL YOU DIE. Fable: being a dodgy swine to 5 people made everyone in the village distrust you for a few ingame weeks until it blew over, and carrying it on made you look like the evil swine you were.

Yes Fable one was a truly epic game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9gYbT_66Qs

OH YEAAAH

faith = restored. That video was incredibly boring to watch- because its EXACTLY like the fallout we know. Apart from the dissapearing turret- that made me lol at Todds "NOTHING TO SEE HERE" reaction

Im feeling alot more comfortable about skyrims features now... unless it turns out fallout was released two weeks after E3 I cant see skyrim being a differnt case

Your memory is correct. Morrowind was an aberration in that it was way more popular than it's predecessors.

Edited for spelling; I'm on my phone.

Aaah, I got confused. I should learn deffinitions of things/ re read sentances

I certainly hope that we don't have misleading demo material like that Oblivion one (the AI demo had only a basic resemblence to in-game). For me, that one demo stuck out most in my recollections later when I was more familiar with playing the game and driven mad by inane greetings/AI "conversations".

The remnants of AI "independent" actions in Oblivion are of course a bit mental - like the beggar not finding food in town barrels and so stealing it and being hunted down to death by the guards. Strangenesses too in the orders to leave immediately (trespassing) after friendly quest-reward conversations. Still, I have played other RPG games with more broken "crime"/faction principles (random merchant assaults you joined in by townpeople/guards - not naming the game).

Anyway, I would certainly be most cautious and skeptical about AI stuff we are told about Skyrim. Gameplay, graphics, etc. I'd take more at face value (and anticipate as being pretty awesome).

I remain some what doubtful,Five minutes of game play,a booth thats not open,maybe this is par for the course for e3,but give us fans some thing,If it's five minutes of full game play,no waffling about the main menu/start screen,that whould be the some thing,for me.

Just don't leave us hang too much,we will buy this game,just don't tease.Or am I slightly wrong about this,I mean,part of me thinks we know more than what is released about most games,do we have enough to go on,and just have to wait for release?

tbh I kind of wish they teased more, because I can't resist watching everything they put out and the more I know the less mindblowing it will be when I play it. It's like a beautiful woman (or man): the more they show the more you start to want it, but the less exciting it is when you get there.

Remember all the things they've lied to us in the Fallout 3 demo?

Me neither...

yeah, that was my point with putting up that video feeling alot more hopefull now

It think one big difference is that they're a lot further with the development with Skyrim now than they were with Oblivion back then. FO3's E3 demo wasn't misleading.

The Oblivion E3 footage was never meant to be seen by the public. Only the press and retailers.

MrSmileyFaceDude, a Bethesda developer:
"Well, it's from a DVD that was sent to retailers and press. Someone (or multiple people) who received it ripped the DVD & started posting the video online. So it wasn't SUPPOSED to get out -- we prefer to release stuff like that ourselves, so we can be sure to have high quality versions -- but it's awful hard to get the cat back into the bag once it's out"

So any complaints about things not being in the final game are invalid. You were never supposed to see the demo.

Of course! I always forget how these things work. If bethesda lie its baaad, but if bethesda lie to the press and retailers who then lie to us, thats all good? This middleman makes allll the difference. And if they had then released high quality versions afterwards that would also make the lie into a truth, wouldn't it?

Seriously, try breathing in and out WITHOUT finding ways to prove that Todd Howard is actually an always correct, always truthful third comming of christ?