I heard Todd and others talk about how much you want to make Fallout 4 feel like a modern shooter.

If so please, please don't screw up the mouse. What I mean is:

• don't have forced acceleration or have an option to disable it (negative and positive)
• don't have crappy emulated mouse, have an option for hardware mouse
• let us fine-tune our sensitivity (even if it's from the setting files)
• don't have different X / Y sensitivity
• and for the love of Talos, don't have forced, unchangeable aim down sight sensitivity scaling. Look at CSGO and Battlefield 4 (post uniform soldier aiming patch) and how they implemented correct FOV based scaling (using the 1.33 magic ratio).

PC gamers (that use the mouse) like to build up something called 'muscle memory' where the brain remember how much to move the reticle

given a certain distance of movement on the mousepad. If you have things like the ones mentioned above, you basically break that pc gamer feature,

making the game virtually unplayable for someone used to good mouse control like CSGO or BF4.

Please I'm begging you, we PC gamers have souls too and we payed and pre-ordered your game. Please, don't forget about us.

We've been waiting for F4 for 6 years too, just like the console people. Please, not another Farcry 4 or Just Cause or any other game that came up that's just a bad mouse console port.
Counter strike had good mouse controls since the ninetees, I was in high school for Talos sake.

Please !

Thanks

Hell at this point I'll be happy if it isn't just a cheap console port like every other modern game. (Looking at you MGSV)

I usually play mage in TES games, and I tried playing Skyrim now because I wanted to play a bow character.
I realized just how HORRIBLE the mouse scaling for aiming down sight (drawing the bow) back is.

Since I use mouse-sensitivity dot com to get the same sensitivity in all games, i had my sensitivity set up just right and i noticed that when drawing back the bow
you basically get a 50% reduction in sensitivity (for a 1% fov increase that's just not right). Goodbye muscle memory, goodbye game, uninstalled.

You just can't come back to a game like this after spending 1000 hours in csgo or bf4 (or other good mouse support games).

While better PC options would definitely be a good thing , don't be lumping all PC gamers together. Sure, there are some who are amazingly picky about mice. But not all of us.

(seriously, though.... the only real mouse issue I've had in a Beth game so far is that the Skyrim menu system was clearly designed around a controller & controller actions - like pushing a thumbstick to scroll lists. Other than that, I've mostly wondered what the problem was when people complained about "acceleration" and other issues. )

What he said, plus an ADS toggle option for the love of god.

Honestly, I don't even know what some of that means, let alone how it would effect me. And I don't play uber-twitch competitive multiplayer FPS's.

(re:ADS.... in the past I've preferred games with a crosshair instead of ADS. Depends on how bulky the guns are/how much view they obstruct, and how bad their sights are. Many of the non-scoped Borderlands guns, for instance.)

edit: wow, that mouse-sensitivity.com site boggles my mind. Really? That's hilarious.

edit2: but sure, whatever. Have some more mouse adjustments in the options. As long as they don't make it hard to use for those of us who just want to play the game.

Just use wasd and enter. I know mice are good and all but I love being able to search through menus and stuff not having to move my mouse.

Mice are very innaccurate in a sense, you may or may not be hovered, etc.

If you don't play online shooters then you don't know how important these things are. It's like driving a different car, and every break, gas (and clutch for eu goodness)

feels differently every single time. With the same pedal feel all round, you remember how much you need to press to stop the car a certain distance.

You don't think about this because you rarely change your car but you change your main video game often. That's why you need these things. To be good at the game.

If you want to be bad then play with a controller. That sorts things out nice and quick.

Fallout 4 is supposed to be a good modern shooter underneath all the (Awesome) rpg stuff.

That is why I made the post. They claimed it's going to be a good shooter too. If it was just like fallout 3 (that didn't have ads) then I wouldn't have made the post.

You'd be surprised how many care about these things.

go to -> imgur.com/pkKVS42

You'll see me using a Steelseries Sensei mouse, Zowie camade mouse bungee and a Razer Goliathus speed mousepad.

It's for the same reason, when I shoot I want to hit what I'm aiming for. I want to play the game well, if I can't play well then why bother.

Which ended up being a failure regardless. I've heard from many players that SkyUI made things bazillion times better even when using a controller. If that doesn't mean a failure on Beth's part, what does?

Better controls for PC, in all aspects (including UI and others), would be great.

Watch this you'll understand.

Go to youtube ->

watch?v=KDUsp478E3Q

and this ->

watch?v=tpbI6-c4qLA

Well, they did get help from id in the shooter aspect so hopefully they took some pointers on how proper mouse aiming works.

@Kiralyn2000

It's kinda like fixing a water leak with ducktape. For someone who isn't a plumber it might seem like good enough solution but for someone who's familiar with water installations they'll consider it a lousy solution.

I have seen many passionate posts about a variety of things.

But this is the first time I've seen a post so passionate about mouse sensitivity.

*pets his USB controller affectionately like a cat*

What am I supposed to be seeing there, aside from a couple guys who are good at twitch-FPS? Good for them, I suppose, to have developed that level of skill. But that kind of millisecond-response competitive-MP playing is a different kind of game than FO4 (/single-player/non-competitive FPS's).

Again, hey - more options is always a nice thing. But it depends on what a game's focus is & how much budget is required for each bit. For a competitive (especially e-Sports level) game, having that level of detail on the accuracy/response time/etc is very important - the players have to be able to react to the crazy things other players are doing. In a slower-paced game against just NPCs? With no real "score" on the line? Sure, it'd be nice for them to spend some time on improving the systems, but it isn't as vital to the overall game. (disclaimer: I have no idea of the amount of dev work required for this kind of stuff. Could be simple & quick, could be time-consuming.)

(and yeah, my mouse is a 6+ year old $20 Kensington optical. Mousepad is some foam logo pad my dad got free from a trade show decades ago. They work nicely enough.)

edit: I would never use a controller for an FPS. Mouse & keyboard is so much better. Also, can't hit the broad side of a barn with a controller.

It comes from the high customization you generally get with option menus on PC. Different folks have different sensitivity preferences. Having the same sensitivity across games helps you out immensely in developing muscle memory, something you need if you want to remain consistent in multiplayer games because generally you don't have crutches like auto-aim on PC. On PC good shooting mechanics have good mouse support as their main pillar to sustain them. That's why it's so important.

Ah I see. I don't play many multiplayer shooters. Even then, very arcade faire like TF2 and the occasional Overload, and in very rare moons, Destiny. I usually settle for a default sensitivity that matches my pace in games, and won't have my pointer flying all over the place at the slightest nudge, or moving so sluggishly I could make a sandwich during the time it takes to move.

You're seeing something not possible unless you have a game with the features I mentioned.

You can probably hit it with that mouse but never in the same spot

Funny you should mention destiny. A good friend of mine has a friend with a PS4 (or was it 3?) and he's playing Destiny with mouse and keyboard (adapter). He destroys people in PVP

You don't have to be a competitive gamer in order to do crazy flick shots, you just need a game with rock solid mouse input (all quake engine games and mods like CS, DoD, HL, etc.), and lots of practice. In a singleplayer game, NPCs won't dodge like a competent gamer would so it's far easier to pull off, and hence anyone can do it; it's a lot of fun. It's not difficult for devs to provide proper mouse support, and if they don't it's either due to sheer ignorance on their part or just laziness because these days everything is a console port.

I guess I'm just lacking in mouse tech knowledge. I've personally never noticed a big difference playing on pc with my crappy hp mouse. Obviously I don't competitively play anything.. and maybe if I did I might notice slight millisecond delays or whatever. But I don't. I still have always found aiming with a mouse much easier than aiming on the console... but that could also be because on console I'm quite a distance away from my t.v. and on pc i'm only 3 feet away from my monitor.

Yes, Skyrim's UI was an absolute disgrace, and TBPH, they ought to be ashamed that they let the game be released with such a god awful UI as that. I'd like to believe they have learned to design a proper interface this time around, but from what I've seen so far, doesn't impress me much. Oh well, let's hope the SkyUi team (or DarN) comes back and fixes what Beth can't fix themselves.

I mostly play turn-based games, I don't play enough real-time games that use a mouse to notice any of those differences. (And even then I tend to just plug a controller into my PC for action games.) But...

Sure, if you're acquainted with a certain level of customization and are used to your mouse performing a certain way I can certainly see it would be off-putting to try and play a game where the controls can't respond to your liking.

For people saying that sort of twitch gameplay isn't necessary or part of a Fallout game, I'm going to disagree. To an extent, at least. I'll give an example of when it does come into play.

In Fallout 3 or New Vegas, have you ever walked around a corner only to find yourself face to face with a super mutant or raider? Taken by surprise, depending on how the enemy is armed, how you react could mean the difference between life and death. If you have those twitch reflexes and the accuracy of the mouse, you can get your weapon up and on target quickly enough to save yourself. That probably means some quick head shots. Poor mouse controls make survival less likely in that scenario as you would have a more difficult time landing those head shots quickly or accurately enough.

I'm not saying more options for things like a mouse and keyboard configurations wouldn't be nice. But...

Muscle memory doesn't work like that - its specifically adaptable, that's the point.

I have my keyboard at home that I like because the keys are where I like them. But when I go to work I can adapt even if the keys stick there and the enter key is in a different spot.

If you have muscle memory for a specific task it doesn't make you less adaptible for similar tasks - if anything you should have an easier time getting used to a different setup.

Anyway, like I said - preferences are your own, as well as your purchasing standards. Just wanted to drop some Science!

Is there anything really so dangerous that you'd have to react that perfectly (headshot/insta-kill) in order to survive? Deathclaws, yes, but a simple headshot won't stop one of those.

(in FO3, this is)

...thinking about it, even at higher difficulties, this wouldn't be the case. Because they'd have more hitpoints, and even more enemies wouldn't die to a headshot. In a modded game, say with one of those Super Danger mods that makes everyone a one-hit wonder, then it would be more important.

(for myself, I can't remember too many times where something like this has happened. But, then, I tend to travel everywhere slowly and Sneaking. Keeping an ear for noises, and an eye on the compass. Run-n-gun is pretty rare. And in fast action style games, I tend towards "spray the area" weapons over single shot pistols & snipers. Because I know I likely won't hit with them. The super-powerful pistol in Bulletstorm, for instance - never managed to get most of the skillshots with that thing. And I'm not getting any younger. )