I'm cautious as to see how the game will work without any of the main attributes, not sure if I like it or not, but it is reassuring to know that If I really hate it I can put it back in....
*bring on the hate for talking about the original topic and not wether or not it would be a good idea*

*looks at topic name*

Thanks professor,
(futurama)

Anyways thnx for the info

look. please. this. is. not. what. this. thread. is. even. about.

We had this argument already and we know that not every one agrees. you can't tell me what I will and will not like, you don't know me. thats beside the point. you guys are turning this thread into something negative in what I intended to be something positive.

this is supposed to be good news for people who don't like the change, this doesn't negativly impact you, and you are really bumming me out when I am trying to be positive. again this isn't a new system vs. the old system. this is about how people who like 8 attributes can get what they like while you can enjoy the new system. every one gets what they want, so what is wrong with that?

4 teh lawlz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ??!?

thanx


thats what I intended


yup

This!

The possibility is nice, just in case the new system doesn't click with some folks. I'll try the vanilla first before I decide whether to mod this out, in the mean time I'll take comfort in the fact that it might be changed, unlike modding in Oblivion skills.

I'll try the new system (I am all most certain that I will not like it) but I will buy a console version before I get PC (mostly to play around with until all typical major release bugs are fixed) and then get the PC version and mod the attributes (if possible) so that I can role play the way I like.

Well I don't care what you do with your version of the game with a mod, that's within the realm of your own game and no one can say otherwise. The only thing is, how do you know that vanilla Skyrim's new system is going to make you unhappy unless your planning on being unhappy, in which case it's just a self-fulfilling prophecy. You need to play the game first before you can know it's bad for you. I and many other RPers don't need arbitrary numbers to make our characters, we have skills and perks for that, but that's just us I guess.

However, I wish you would take heed in some of our explanations of how the new system has massive potential. That thread we had the other night illustrated just how much massive potential the new system had compared the old attributes system. You should be happy that you get to try out the new system, not be disappointed about it. Save your disappointment for after you play the game and see if it turns out it was bad (I personally don't think it will be) But you can't really say it's bad now and preconceive a mod 6 months before the game even comes out without all the info or even a feel of how the game works, usually visual mods are done like that (like my armor :hugs:) That's all I really want to say about the whole situation, just sit back and relax and enjoy the ride and after you play the game and you find that the new system is unbearable to you, then no one will blame you for modding it.

And you can't say for sure what you will and will not like about Skyrim. You don't know Skyrim.

I'm simply offering discussion, not trying to rain on anybody's parade. I question why anyone would even want to mod in the attributes when they're supposedly redundant.

Good to know, The removal of attributes is the one piece of news so far about the new game that has bothered and disappointed me, good to know that it will likely be possible to mod them back in in full.

thank you for acknowleging that.

I know because what I enjoy most about character design in rpgs is lots and lots of stats and numbers, I like learning the system especially if it has a higher learning curve, I feel like an expert once I have mastered it, its a matter of obtaining a feeling of personal acomplishment. I understand that you and other people don't agree with me when I say that the new system eliminates that, thats fine, but they have taken out that element that I love about TES. you don't have to agree with me but you can't tell me that what I like about a game is wrong. thats why I know I won't like it without trying it. this is massivly off topic.



no one should blame any one for wanting to mod any thing, mods are about personal preference and that is why I don't like this thread being hijacked like this.

Well the first major stats I increased were: Strength - So I could carry more loot, Endurance - So I had more health, Speed - So I could run faster, and Intelligence - So I could cast more spells.

Now all of those are dedundant.

Because I want my intelligent character to be intelligent, my strong character to be strong, my fast character to be fast. I don't just want those qualities implied by the fact that my nominally intelligent character has a bigger magicka pool or my strong character can do extra weapon damage - hell - they might well be intelligent or strong or whatever and be entirely uninterested in whatever it is that Beth decrees goes along with that. So in that sense, "everything that attributes did" is NOT still in the game. Maybe I'll want to play a notably intelligent warrior or a notably strong mage. It won't have anything to do with their abilities (or not much, though actually it arguably should, to at least some degree and in at least some way), but in any event, it will help to define them as characters. No - it would help to define them as characters. It only will if it can be modded back in.

Personally, I don't get the "redundant" "everthing attributes did is still in the game" viewpoint. I don't have a character have a certain amount of an attribute just because of what it does to his/her magicka pool or HP or whatever - I have a character have a certain amount of an attribute because that's how I envision the character - the derived attributes are secondary, as far as I'm concerned. Kyla could be much stronger and do more weapon damage and carry more stuff, but that's not how I envsion her. She's not strong - that's part of the point of the character. She's had to compensate for her relatively low strength by honing her weapon skill. And she has. That makes her a much richer and more complex character than she would've been otherwise. That specific detail - her relative lack of strength - is a fundamental part of who she is. Three derived attributes and some perks aren't going to be able to take the place of that. Yes - from a purely utilitarian basis, the gameplay could work out the same, but the character could never be the same, and, much more than anything else, it's for the characters that I play TES games.

Pretty much this. They are gonna have to re-balance (nerf) skill, the 3stats, and perks if they don't wanna end up over powered after adding back the 5 attributes.

Why are people incapable of staying on topic for even 1 or 2 pages of a thread? Clearly this thread was started to discuss whether the CK would natively support attributes for those who wanted them back in. It was not started about whether attribute removal was good or bad. Everyone who is flaming the OP's position against attributes are using just as invalid a strawman they are accusing him of... you have no way to know that he WILL like the game better that way any more than you can say he doesn't know he won't... and that's not even what he was discussing anyway. You will be in no way forced to play any such mod to reintroduce attributes should it ever exist, and how this person plays and mods the game will not negatively impact your experience whatsoever... why derail the thread with your useless, flaming, off topic remarks?

And I read it with Isaac Kleiner's voice... :nerd: :disguise:

I checked just to be sure, although I hardly needed to but, my friend. you can add skills, I haven't done it, but the option exists just as much as we could make new races and birth signs, we know this because the devs let modders use the tools they use to develope their games, this is so that modders don't make mods that are super buggy because they used irregular ways to mod the game. but that was with the CS, we don't quite know what is in the CK. (I doubt they will release much if any direct information about the tool they are still using to develope their game.) but what was implied by the ign interview was that they had put attributes in before so the ability to mod attributes depends upon if they were using the CK from the begining. I think they did, so I am excited about this news.

:foodndrink:

I sincerely have no idea why anyone feels the need to piss all over someone else's pleasure at the implication that he'll be able to mod in a thing that he likes, but that's pretty much all this thread has been. To me, it's like a whole bunch of people all lining up to hurl abuse at somebody who's happy to find out he'll be able to put a different transmission in his new car.

Even if I didn't share your concern about the elimination of attributes, I'd still greet this as potentially good news, just as I would, say, the news that modding in riding dragons looks possible. I'm not in the least bit interested, but I know that's something that a lot of people want, and I think it'd be nice for them if it could be modded in.

:shrug:

Okay. So when Kyla's running around in Skyrim, just make sure not to pick any damage increasing sword perks and tape a note to your monitor that reads "Strength 40". Problem solved.

mirglof, you cannot add skills. Well, you can, but it's incredibly painstaking. You'll note that there's pretty much only one "new skill" mod for Oblivion, an Unarmored one, and it does what it does through some complicated tokens and hit detection.

Except attributes really didn't have a learning curve at all. It listed what they did and the number was pretty self explanatory (and pretty negligible at that). Perks are more of a learning curve. You can spend time finding what combinations of perks are synergistic or you can choose perks on the fly because you have been having issue with heavily armored enemies that keep blocking your attacks alot, pick the bleeding perk and cause them to continue to take damage after your rare hits and you cause their heavy armor to be less sufficient. Yes, now you feel you need it to accomplish that but you may find that the new system is just as satisfying or more so, you just have to give it a try instead of being a doomsayer, it shakes the faith of some of the people that only pop in here every once and awhile and haven't seen all the info. We're all fine with you disagreeing about the change, just say "I don't like the change" instead of "the change is awful".



Then your character is automatically intelligent because you want it to be since intelligence isn't a visible aspect to your character when you just look at the character and it's intelligence also relies on your responses to dialogue. Intelligence really never made sense anyhow because intelligence doesn't increase over time. Also, if you want a strong character, change your character's body type at the beginning to be some muscular brute, now that we have that in Skyrim.

Apart from 50 perks that all directly change your gameplay in unique ways, giving a more substantial difference over attributes which would have simply boiled down to these things:

1. Running faster
2. Carrying more stuff?

And if that's the case, "modding them back in" will actually be a really major effort. A great many things about leveling, the way skills work, the way combat works (damage/etc), the interface, NPC and monster balance.... all these things will need to be added or changed.

This would be an amazingly non-trivial mod to make and then balance. I wouldn't expect a "good" implementation of it for at least a year, if not more. Very complex mods don't just pop out of nowhere.

no matter how difficult it will be to mod this it will eternally be worth it for me.

Edit: I would pay extra even if the devs made a horse armor style dlc that put attributes back in. (if there isn't a mod for it of course)

This. Depending on just how much control the CK gives us (supposedly alot more) you may be able to get around to reworking the UI to allow the old attributes back in but however, if the limits on that are the same as they were with the CS, your going to have to find an alternative way to add that interface through an item in the game.

your on the wrong thread, that is not what this discussion is about, its about new information in the ign interview that is related to the CK and the possibility of attributes as a mod. we are not discussing the merits of attributes here, we had that discussion, it went no where.