Lol why bother with TES then, its 80% action now anyways, it was OK in Morrowind not to have all the gore, cause it was 80% story. Now they need to switch it up or flop.

"Gore" doesn't do much for me, though there were a lot of "horror" elements in daggerfall dungeons that included gore that I liked a lot.

So.. I don't exactly care if a crab explodes into body parts if I stab it, but some R-rated flexibility in design could be useful to make dungeons seem like dungeons.

Exactly, I dont want it to get carried away either like FO's bloody mess perk, but to make dungeons immersive, combat too, they have locational damage already I'd like to lop peoples arms off, shoot legs with arrows and give them an effect that its done some damage, rather than them just taking a number out of their health bar.

It's an RPG. How the hell do you assume that action is the only thing left in TES?

I didnt, i said 80%, so 18% RPG and 2% story, imo of course. If you dont agree thats OK, I'd still like an M rating to fit the genre of the game and make things more realistic, immersive.

The gore in the Oblivion planes didn't do much for me, but that was more because the models were so hideous (And I don't mean that in the way such things SHOULD be, I mean they're so poorly done.) that honestly they just looked silly. That's in fact a problem I have with Oblivion's graphics as a whole, maybe if the game had lesser graphics overall, the gore models would have looked alright, but honestly, those plastic-looking models and textures simply have no business being in a game that can put so much detail into other things.



I could also ask why waste time writing stories, designing characters, programming game mechanics...

Why even waste time MAKING games. Let's face it, the only purpose a game has to exist is to provide entertainment, and therefore, NOTHING that adds entertainment value is pointless in a game, and many people find fictional violence entertaining, if you don't realize that, you really, REALLY need to look around you at the entertainment industry.



Fallout 3 didn't get an AO rating...

And how many games can you name that got an AO rating for violence and gore alone? Probably very few,



Bethesda can't give the game an M rating, ESRB gives it an M rating, and once ESRB rates it, it's already done.

However, Bethesda CAN shoot for an M rating, or at least design whatever game they feel would be best without letting the possibility of an M rating hold them back.



I didn't like that aspect either but, once again, it wasn't the gore that did it, rather it was the fact that it was pretty much a generic fire and brimstone hell, which was an overdone cliche well before Oblivion, plus it was really repetitive and quickly got annoying with all the enemies and the fact that you were forced down a long, linear path in each plane when you could have quickly reached the Sigil Stone without much difficulty if only levitation were in the game, in the end, while I have complained about the look Bethesda decided to go with for Cyrodiil before, by the time I closed any given Oblivion gate, it was honestly a huge relief to return to the colorful, somewhat too pleasant generic psuedo-Medeival fantasy realm of Cyrodiil, at least it looked nice and actually had more than one type of environment.

Still it has nothing to do with gore.

But as to just how violent the Elder Scrolls series should be, Oblivion wasn't really good enough for me, and Morrowind DEFINATELY was not. But Fallout 3 may be a little extreme, certainly, I don't want to have people's heads exploding all over the place, but I do at least want more blood, and it needs to stay on objects for a decent amount of time, the blood shouldn't just fade after 30 seconds, it needs to remain for much longer, in fact, it would be best if it can stay as long as you're in the cell, but failing that, I at least want it to remain for as long as I'm likely to be looking at the carnage of my last fight, and DEFINATELY it shouldn't fade before the fight is even over. I also want actual wounds to be visible on characters, even though they'd probably just be flat decals like the blood, it would still be a lot better than having people who got hacked up with a huge ax look like they might as well have just dropped dead spontaniously with how spotless their corpses are, I wouldn't object to dismemberment, but it should be fairly rare if it happens at all, and only come from very hard hits with large weapons, probably, I can buy an ax decapitating someone if you're lucky and hit hard enough, but a dagger doing the same is just too much. Also, if people get burned to death, I want them to look burned, kind of like what happens in Bioshock, in fact, the Deadly Reflex mod for Oblivion even managed to pull something like this off, perhaps other spells could also have their own appropriate special death effects. Overall, while I don't need a perfectly accurate combat simulator (In fact, I don't WANT one.) I would like the violence to be a bit more realistic, or at least, more "serious", by which I mean graphic enough to have an actual impact, but not so extreme as to be comical, because fighting with swords and axes and other weapons that are prone to leave rather gory injuries on people shouldn't be pretty, and seeing people just drop dead without a mark on them really doesn't carry that impact.



Perhaps because 90% of the time, your problems are inevitably solved by violence?

Granted, it was like this in Morrowind too often, I mean, sure, some quests could be solved with diplomacy, but could you ever talk Dagoth Ur out of his plans? Or Almalexia? Or any other major antagonist in the game? And how did you ever reason with those cliffracers and nix hounds that kept throwing themselves at you suicidally? Morrowind had a lot of fighting too, the difference is that in Morrowind, the combat was boring, so if you were ever given the oportunity to avoid fighting, chances were that you'd take the peaceful way out.

Still, even in Morrowind I found the red "spurts" that didn't even look much like blood pretty unsatisfactory, it's not like graphic violence only works in games where action is the main focus, just look at the old Fallout games, sure, you could solve most, if not all quests without relying on violence, but that didn't stop the designers from putting in very violent and graphic death animations, just because violence is optional doesn't mean it shouldn't be satisfying if you choose to use it.

"Bethesda can't give the game an M rating, ESRB gives it an M rating, and once ESRB rates it, it's already done.

However, Bethesda CAN shoot for an M rating, or at least design whatever game they feel would be best without letting the possibility of an M rating hold them back."

Thats exactly what i meant by giving it an M rating. If they dont shoot for any rating and make it realistic, I have no doubt it will get an M. Good post btw Selbeth

Well I want damage that is realistic for TES too. I don't want to shoot an arrow at someone and make them explode. Unless it was an enchanted explosive arrow, Rambo?

Yeah TES would be fun with gore.

Violence is the cheapest, shallowest, most vile form of entertainment, so no, I don't think it should be incorporated as a major feature of the game.

Violence is not a soap opera. You have been confused.

Violence is a major part of all four Elder Scrolls games.

Ohh please, NO! I'm a teen with really strict parents, and if the next TES is M, and REALLY M, unlike OB, then I probably won't get to play it. And I love the Elder Scrolls series. Please don't make statements that could possibly result in leaving people like me out in the dust.

Besides, a game doesn't HAVE to be rated M to be a good game.

I know F3 wasnt AO, im saying that F3 was overly gory and overly gory games(which some people tend to favor) tend to get AO ratings and have to change a lot of things to get it lowered to M.

The Elder Scrolls works fine with the gore level shown in Morrowind & Oblivion, however like most others I would much rather see something more along the lines of Fallout 3 or better as long as its kept realistic.

How about the exploding bodies of Arena and Daggerfall?

I think the level of gore was alright in Oblivion, although it could have been animated better. I'm not sure how I feel about dismemberment, I feel like the games that do include it go overboard...you need a very strong blow to remove a head or arm.

What I would really care to see is more realistic blows, such as on your final strike before the enemy dies. If its a thrust, the controller should shudder, and your blade should be stuck through the body of your enemy - they shouldn't just bounce off the tip.

Same thing for a chop. The blade should get stuck, and your character should have an animation of wrenching the weapon back out.

If the attack was a slash that wouldn't become lodged in flesh, show an arterial spray of blood.

That would be one hell of an idea for finishing blows, I like it

In FO3, dismemberment was overboard i agree, the enemy died when you dismembered something, I dont think I would want it to be so common cause like you said it takes a lot of force. Maybe as a crit from a power attack if aimed at the right body part. Deadly Reflex did a good job on the gore level in oblivion, gamesas could def take some notes.

More realistic blood, beheadings etc. Hell yes.

Cleaving everybody in half "For teh lulz" Not so much.

Enough gore so that it doesn't look like a Mario game, but not Fallout 3 or Deadly Reflex level of gore.

guts, everywhere

nah realism. i think fallout 3 was a prime example of "holy beep they really nailed the gore here i just love beeping killing things" to "ok this gets boring when it happens every 3 seconds"

It's not high on my wish list for TESV, but I wouldn't be against more gore, either. If there is to be more gore, it should be in order to make the game realistic, not just gore for the sake of gore (à la FO3).

Fighting is a major part of all four Elder Scrolls games. Not people's guts spilling out.

I think it should be on a slider so folks can pick their own level. And then there are always mods to take things even further.

But if there's going to be blood, it shouldn't look like the "kool-aid" fountains in the oblivion worlds. It should look like blood.

One of the best uses of blood in Oblivion (which actually gave me the creeps) was the dark colored floor splatter streaks which were permanent. It looked like something was hit with enough force to leave a big skid mark of blood. Really left you wondering what you were getting yourself into.

Then there's always this angle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eMkth8FWno

Fallout 3 gore, but implemented differently. Slicing someones arm off with a sword would be good, but i don't want them to fly back 6 ft and die when their arm is hacked off. they should be in a lot of pain and keep attacking you untill they die from bloodloss. and i want people to bleed from arrows not just have a barb sticking through them that they leave there untill it dissapears =S. i would like to be able to crush skulls with a giant hammer like actually smash it through thair head and have the yank it out of their head stump and pick the pieces of brain and skull of of it afterwards =P

I want "God of War 3" level gore. That would be just awesome.