Just because ESRB decided to rare Oblivion M doesn't mean Bethesda will shoot for an M rating in future games. It's already pretty obvious that M rated games can still be commercial successes, as demonstrated by titles like Grand Theft Auto and most first person shooters. If anything, the M rating can sometimes be one of the causes to their success. Thus, I really don't think Bethesda had any reason to try to avoid an M rating out of fear that the game might fail because of it.

That being said, though, I'd like Bethesda to make the next game a little more violent, violence like Fallout 3 isn't necessary, as exploding heads from pistol shots is a little excessive, what I want is something a little more realistic, or at least, closer to how one might imagine a fight involving swords, axes and fireballs and the like to look like. Let's face it, the Elder Scrolls isn't exactly you're average Saturday morning cartoon. It deals with issues such as nobles being assassinated, monsters killing people, and world-threatening Daedric invasions. These are serious issues with lives at stake, and while maybe some would disagree, I find that it delivers a very conflicting message when, with all this going on, people killed by repeated blows from huge swords look like they're just sleeping. Granted, some stories really can find ways to avoid showing lots of blood and gore while still getting the right feeling across. Maybe it's because the people that died are all killed in ways where you wouldn't expect to see lots of blood, or maybe they're just good at hiding the gory details while still getting the point across that what's going on is not all rainbows and bunnies. However, neither Morrowind nor Oblivion pulled this off pretty well, and part of the reason is because they're much more up close and personal with their first person perspectives than most movies. When shooting a movie, it's easy to put the camera somewhere where viewers could accept not to see blood when someone is shot, you can't do this in first person games. There's also the issue of the detail of the graphics, in real time strategy games, I have no trouble accepting it when they don't show any blood when people are killed, because I'm focusing on commanding large armies rather than seeing how individual soldiers die, in older games as well, a lack of detail in graphics made it easier to accept a lack of realism, the issue of imagination also comes into play here, as in older games, since the low quality graphics left more up to the imagination, one could often fill in the blanks that the game didn't show you, and imagine how the things that were happening should look. Now in Oblivion, on the other hand, the graphics are much more detailed, and everything is shown to you. Thus, although I may not speak for all, I find that this makes it increasingly difficult to accept unrealistically mild depictions of violence, given that any sequel will definately look even better, I'm sure this effect will only increase.

As what I said about Fallout 3 gore would indicate, though, I don't want anything too extreme, what I want to see is people bleed when you'd expect them too, and there should be wounds on their body, fire should also make bodies look burnt and such, as to dismemberment... maybe, if it does happen, it should be a rare occurrence and only happen with attacks with lots of force, like say... a strike from a Daedric battle ax, if you go around fighting with a simple sword and see limbs flying everywhere, it loses the effect that realistic violence originally seeks to provide, and looks just as silly as having victims of sword wounds indistinguishable from people killed by poison, if not more so. It gets to the point where rather than making violent scenes disturbing, it makes them hilarious, and that's fine too, for some works, but "hilarious" is not a word I'd associate with the Elder Scrolls.



That's ironic, considering most long-time Fallout fans seem to be as "hardcoe" as RPG players come, and on the other hand, Morrowind and Oblivion seem to have attracted many players with little previous experience with RPGs.



No, people getting hacked apart by axes without leaving a single scratch on their body is stupid, in this case, it would be reasonable, in fact, quite realistic, for there to be some gore involved.

I want an interesting story, radiant AI further developed, and more personal interactions with characters in the game world. Expending resources on more realistic depiction of injuries is way down on my list of priorities.

Despite all those mature crusaders here, the gore could still fit if it's implemented properly and balanced.

I wouldn't mind more gore as long as it's in a more realistic manner so actually bleeding wounds can show (also as a injure indicator). Dismeemberment still shouldn't be the norm so not every sword slash chops off a arm or head.

As mentioned in an older thread if a gory kill happens it should actually have some effect instead of just being for show like watching NPCs being shocked or grossed out.

In FO3, shooting someone from ambush with a BB gun resulted in heads flying off and body parts everywhere. For some unexplainable reason, this is called "realism".

I don't really care about dismemberment or gore, however I do love the localized damage and "limb damage" aspects of FO3 and would love to have them incorporated into TES.

Wouldn't you just love to be able to pin a bandit's leg with a bow and watch them helplessly limp after you while you shower them with arrows? Or how about stabbing their sword arm making it unusable forcing them to either flee, surrender (yes, I want this) or revert to magic?

Hahahahaha! I'm not sure I'd want limbs flying all over the place but a bit of blood that stays on the terrain for a while or on your clothing/armour would be good. Although I do enjoy playing find the eyeballs in FO3.

Nah, realism never factored into that design philosophy, despite what its forum defenders might say. It was done for the style, for the anti-realism, for the over-the-top gore that adds to the series' dark humor. And it compliments Fallout 3.

However, that style does not adapt well to TES. Locational damage? Perhaps, though it would have to be skill- and attribute-based for me to accept it (i.e. higher endurance == higher resistance to being crippled, higher strength and weapon skill == higher chance of successfully crippling, etc). However, I have no desire to see the popping and slicing off of body parts, nor exploding chunks of flesh and a shower of viscera. That style does not compliment TES.

Now, wound decals? Blood that lasts longer on the blade and on the ground than just a scant few seconds? I'm OK with that. But not over-the-top. That has no place.

Make Bloody Mess a skill in TES5

Gore... Well let's see here... swords+bows+hand-to-hand combat+magic (if implemented as described)+clubs+maces(+/-)spears X next-gen graphics requirement for consoles= one big bloody mess if the elderscrolls wants to continue to be realistic and not look like an old Xbox game. Then again, TES has always had a graphic past. There were the dead bodies in Daggerfall, the corprus disease in Morrowind, and the zombies/deadlands/blood decals in Oblivion. So, I am fairly sure that TES5 will have gore. It's what the mainstream wants (See Gears of War, God of War, and Halo 3); It will make the game seem more "mature" if done properly, and not overused in a comical manner; And if they don't have it, they will simply be undermining their work even further.

Yes. Ludicrously violent like in I Wanna Be the Guy: The Game. At random, trees should fall upon people and cause them to explode, and the walls in dungeons should periodically grow mouths and try to eat you, and it rains blood on Turdas.

In all seriousness, I don't think TES needs that much gore. It's classier than that. The only advantage to it (assuming it's done tastefully) is that it may result in more parents stopping their kiddies from buying the game, meaning Bethesda needn't simplify the game as much to cater to their demographics.

Amen Stonefrog!

Ok here's how i see it:

*Cuts and bruises from being slashed and stabbed by blades and blunts...(YES)
*Burns from flame spells...(YES)
*Hair that stands up after shock spells...(YES)
*Frostbite signs after frost spells...(YES)
*Dismemberment of body parts due to extreme violence aka swords slash...(YES but should rarely happen, and you shouldn't have massive blood spurt after dismemberment, that just made me gag in F3)
*Explosion of body parts due to extreme violence aka swords slash...(FORGET IT, NO! It was excusable in F3 i guess bacause you had grenades and other strong stuff, but in TES NO)
*Random explosions that come from chandeliers and walls while talking to merchants...(Obviously YES <_< , ha just kidding, HELL NO!!!)
*Spells that cause the explosion of targets due to, fire ice or shock...(Well, there was that spell called 'enemies explode' which is a strong fire spell, i expected it to come to the same result, but it didn't, i'll say YES WITH RESTRICTION, only 3 spells in the game will do this, 1 per element)

Oh and as a side-note TES shouldn't even come close to F3's gore-party if done with above guidelines, plus, no guts flying everywhere please, i like keeping oblivion for fantasy role-play and fallout for post-apocalyptic gore-fest

nothing close to wht F3 had even though it worked with fallout. if its in the background though then whtever but i dont want eyeballs and [censored] flying at me every fight. in ES i would want blood staying on your sword longer just like someone else said, or visible gashes and a more battleworn look then thts all good, but not the amount of nastiness as there was in F3.

Gore would probably be appreciated by many, but 'critical kils' or chances of instant kill, would ruin the whole concept of levelling up Blade/Blunt/... you know what I mean?
It worked in Fallout, due to the simple XP system (kill people to gain XP, get enough XP to level up, choose skill points at level up, repeat), unlike eg. Oblivion where skills levelled up individually (eg. Gain XP in blade skill by using a blade, gain XP in blunt skill by using an axe).

If you could insta-kill enemies, there would be no point in levelling these skills up..

YES to more blood, but NO to decapitations who instantly kills enemies.

There were no critical kills in that sense though. There were critical hits, and depending on the weapon, would make something interesting happen if that critical hit were to kill the enemy. Like, if you had a critical hit with a laser weapon and it just so happened to kill the enemy, they would be incinerated. With a plasma weapon, they'd be a pile of goo. I thought that was interesting, and well-implemented.

So are you suggesting that if a target is killed with e.g. fire, they burn to ash, or ice freeze into a statue?

He means that if ever a chances the weapon does critical damage and it kills the foes, both condition happening at the same time, then the chance of a some animation involving death like turning to ashes or dismemberment will likely to happen, because the foe was kill by critical damage.

Ooooh...then i'm all for it

I want it but not as much as fallout I mean one cut and blood all over the walls arm's missing, all from being shot in the foot

They should have gore but not over the top.

NO! Keep it at Oblivion level please. Fallout 3s was just immature.

Basically, yeah, it'd be neat to see someone turn into a pile of ash, but only if by a critical strike, and only if that strike kills them - as Qawsed said.

In general, and making note of the fact that I love gore, and that the gore in Fallout 3 made me giddy (I was ecstatic when I got Bloody Mess), I don't think too much gore would suit TES. At least for me, the level of gore in Fallout 3 (I haven't played the previous titles) was a staple of the gameplay. For realism purposes - and strictly realism purposes - I wouldn't mind seeing slashed up corpses. Dismemberment is a no-no (I can't remember what I said earlier in the thread, but if I was for dismemberment earlier, this is me recanting ). Unless you got into a probability system (I'll get to this), you would actually have to aim and make the precise attack. However, if you were using a blade, it wouldn't make sense - for mechanical reasons - if it took one hit to kill an enemy unless damage would dictate as much. But it wouldn't make sense for a strike that would otherwise behead them not to, just because they're healthier. Not that it made much sense in Fallout 3, but dismemberment was part of its charm. There is probability, but then we go back into the days of Morrowind combat with nonsensical probabilities (there's going to be a chance of removing their head if you make a precise horizontal strike beneath their skull?).

Fallout's gore level is intentionally over-the-top, which is something I hope Beth avoids with TESV, as ES games are decidedly -not- like the Fallout series in that regard.

I like the idea of magic effect manifesting themselves physically on a target though. But only if it's done tastefully/believably. Like if you kill someone with a fire spell, their corpse might stay lit for a little bit after they die, smoldering and smoking until all that is left are charred remains, along with any non-flammable gear they were holding. The entire environment, including flora and fauna, should react to physical actions of the player character. Slash a tree with your sword? bark should fly off and a mark should remain in the trunk. Cast a fire spell on a bush? It should ignite, and maybe even have a chance of spreading... Imagine if you accidentally -- or intentionally -- started a massive forest fire, destroying an entire hillside including all creatures in the area... The environment would slowly regenerate and eventually go back to how it was. Cast a frost spell on a fountain and the water should freeze. Hit a door with your warhammer and it should splinter, and with enough force, collapse. Throw a knife, star, or rock at a window, and maybe it will crack or shatter. All of these dynamic elements in the environment make the game world so much more captivating.

Well bioshock had araely awsome freeze power. they ddint need any extra animation for it. The creature/npc was jsut frozen in what ever position he was in, and gets covered in ice. Doom 3 also did a realy awsome burn animation for when the monsters/demons faded away.

They just need realy well done shaders (Animtied texture). its not that hard. Hmm thats an idea for a mod. If they dont include it, I could add a new spell and find out how to make shaders. It was realy easy with Quake 3.