Do graphics matter? : V - Skyrim

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:01 pm

without them it wouldn't be a video game to some extent.

Yeah, if you don't want graphics then there's text based games.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:04 pm

I voted yes. I think graphics are very important, especially when it comes to creating a great atmosphere for the gameplay and storyline.

But I'm not saying every single game has to stay on the front lines of advances in graphical technology. I really don't think too much time should be spent on it, just a considerable amount.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:25 am

I think we may see some DX11 features in Skyrim, especially after reading this article:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/285248/news/crytek-expects-next-gen-consoles-by-2013/

Assuming Crytek's CEO is correct and we will see new consoles around 2013 and also assuming that Bethesda will be releasing Fallout 4 about 2 years after Skyrim, that would put FO4 at a late 2013 to early 2014 release. If the creation engine is going to be used in FO4 and be competitive as a next-gen engine it is going to HAVE to use DX11 (maybe DX12 by then). IMO, if Bethesda was smart they would start implementing some of those features now.

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:43 pm

well, now that bethesda have the engine nice i should hope that the engine coders arent sitting on their asses and are actualy optimizing the engine they created/adding DX11

Skyrim doesn't need DX11. It doesn't need to be comparable to anything else on the market because it will do what it sets out to do and that is to best it's predecessor. Skyrim will blow Oblivion away and will do it without DX11 and that is all it needs to do.

I think we may see some DX11 features in Skyrim, especially after reading this article:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/285248/news/crytek-expects-next-gen-consoles-by-2013/

Assuming Crytek's CEO is correct and we will see new consoles around 2013 and also assuming that Bethesda will be releasing Fallout 4 about 2 years after Skyrim, that would put FO4 at a late 2013 to early 2014 release. If the creation engine is going to be used in FO4 and be competitive as a next-gen engine it is going to HAVE to use DX11 (maybe DX12 by then). IMO, if Bethesda was smart they would start implementing some of those features now.

I don't think we will, not for Skyrim. If they are adding DX11 to the Creation Engine as we speak for FO4 then it is a separate build from Skyrim because i just don't see Bethesda reworking there engine over halfway through a development cycle just to try and have the latest (unrefined I might add) tech available.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:14 pm

Why wouldn't you want good graphics to interfere with gameplay?

Good graphics open more doors for gameplay.

What I mean is, if they focus too much on graphics then the gameplay will start to lack, like in most games nowadays.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:44 pm

Graphics matter. I don't think they detract from gameplay or story in any way, as different people are working on those simultaneously. If they had a team of five people working on their game, I'd say they could put less focus on the looks. But lo, they have dozens upon dozens of devs.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:11 am

It's nice having a cool story, but graphics should be important. I'm aware of how amazing the sales for the Wii were. Imagine if the graphics actually looked good!

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:08 am

Yes. I know immersion is a big buzz word, but that's really something I like.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:45 pm

Minecraft is not a AAA title with a multi million dollar budget. It is not expected of Minecraft to push the envelope in terms of visual immersion. Minecraft has nothing to do with ES. Play Minecraft over ES then, or tell Bethesda to utilize Minecraft's engine if visual immersion has nothing to do with overall game enjoyment. Gameplay, graphics, story, sound design, atmosphere, etc. ALL make a great game, great. Remove any development element within a game and it will suffer accordingly, due to the fact that the standards are always increasing with technology and advancements in modern gaming capabilities.

But of course, if people have been actually reading this thread, several of us who are in favour of graphics have already went over this. Several times.

Agreed.

» Sat May 28, 2011 2:14 pm

Agreed.

x2

If graphics wouldn't matter, we'd still be stuck in Wolf3D-quality.

That's not what makes a game cool, though. I've discarted buying many nice-looking games because they looked boring as hell to me.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:39 am

For me, immersion involves two key components; A realistic visual environment, and top notch sound design. I don't care how great the story is, if those two things aren't laying the foundation that the story is laid upon, I can't get immersed into it. Just my opinion for my preference in RPG gaming, naturally.

I'm not at all saying that the story doesn't matter. The sights, the sounds, the story.... all equally important for a 1st person game in my book.

Assuming Crytek's CEO is correct and we will see new consoles around 2013

Lots of rumors and speculation, but the year I keep seeing is 2015 at the earliest, unfortunately. I really, really hope it's 2013, if not sooner. Heck, in 2015, PCs will probably have 8-10 core processors, 28 GB of RAM standard, and GPU's that would make today's high-end cards look ridiculously silly. It would be unfathomable to imagine that PC gamers would be playing games designed to run on a then 9-year old relic.

At some point, wouldn't the dev studios have to tweak the one-size-fits-all practice if the divide in technology gets to be too vast? I don't think we're quite there yet, but if Microsoft / Sony start trying to squeeze more years of life out of the current consoles, we'll get there sooner than later.

/tangent. I would think that Crytek's CEO would have the scoop, so here's hoping he's correct

Win-win for everyone.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:09 pm

I do believe that graphics are good way to get immersed into a game, but I don't feel they need to be so up-to-date since sometimes it just takes too long to get used to new tools and such and then produce the game all in one time frame. Although I'm glad Bethesda gave themselves 4 years to work on Skyrim and get used to their new tools. I also hope they've given themselves a LOT of time to debug their game since gameplay is a very big priority, and is definitely a bigger priority than graphics. Gameplay is what makes a game fun to play, the fluidity of you and your character. Story is another big priority that I think is more important than graphics. Story is what gives the game depth, something that drives the gamer play through the game nonstop, just like how a good story keeps a reader unable to put a book down. Most of Oblivion's story was good, the only thing I didn't like was that not all the oblivion gates were unique in its own way, which they really made you go through a lot during the main quest. I think overall honestly Oblivion was well rounded in the 3 areas of story, gameplay, and graphics. I don't believe that graphics should be a priority though. I really wouldn't care if they used the same graphics as Oblivion again (and Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas), I just want there to be great gameplay and story to it. Graphics is just a luxury, not a necessity. I believe the equation is so: Gameplay>Story>Graphics.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:38 pm

graphics don't matter as much as good story telling.

if graphics really mattered, no more books would be sold bc the movies would reign supreme.

sorry, i just believe a plot structure is needed in game play and anything else told by media.

» Sat May 28, 2011 1:40 pm

Let's get a few things clear. For one thing, graphical progress has been a gradual change that's always been occuring. It has nothing to do with now, it has to do with the advance of technology and the advance of the video game community. No, but you're right. Graphics aren't important, so we shouldn't have even bothered to progress past Pong's graphics... or better yet, we shouldn't have added graphics to games and started calling them video games in the first place, right? You see where I'm going with this?

On another note, Bethesda has pretty much always pushed the boundaries on graphics and technical aspects, in general. Arena was a pain to get running on computers of its day. I'm not sure about Daggerfall, but Morrowind was cutting-edge, too, and so was Oblivion. It has nothing to do with now because it's just been happening. Graphical advancement is a constant throughout video gaming history.

Another part of this is that graphics typically aren't alone. Oblivion's engine is largely unoptimized. They needed to make a new, more optimized one , in my opinion. Better graphics come as a by-product of more advanced gaming engines which, in turn, allow for more advanced physics, animations, graphics, sounds, AI, day-and-night systems, weather systems (part of graphics), optimization for a smoother running game (Where was occlusion culling twenty years ago?), the potential for better gameplay, and just more stuff, in general.

Now, I would like to ask a question. For what purpose do people oppose the very foundation of what separates video games from other types of games? Why does it seem that picking on graphics and the modern day is considered a "cool" thing to do on the internet? We have a freaking hand-held console able to run PS3 games, now, and how can anyone possibly say they don't care? If Skyrim has a view from the peaks of one of its mountains that will both leave your jaw dangling in awe and make you acrophobic at the same time, would you not be impressed? I've stated this before, but from an objective view, graphics do matter in a video game. My reasoning:

graphics = video

gameplay = game

graphics + gameplay = video game

That is a truth that cannot be denied. If you personally disagree and honestly think story is more important than either of them then, and I don't mean this out of anger, I think what you're looking for is a book. I read plenty of books, myself, but the premise of video games does not rank graphics as meaningless nor does it place story above it's two key elements. Video game stories have always been weak in comparison to stories from other forms of media that are based around the focus on stories... such as books. I'm sorry, but it is the truth. :shrug:

Honestly, why? I prefer lore to gameplay. But Gameplay is a close second.

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:41 am

Assuming Crytek's CEO is correct and we will see new consoles around 2013

I heard that a new Xbox won't be released for another 5 years because they are going to cash out on the Kinect.

» Sat May 28, 2011 6:01 pm

What I mean is, if they focus too much on graphics then the gameplay will start to lack, like in most games nowadays.

graphics is developed completely seperate from gameplay.

game developers do not hire only jack of all trades. they have a coding team(not sure if engine and individual pieces are seperate), an artist team, designers and playtesters. and bethesda also has guys that use the cs, which is different from normal map making kits

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:52 pm

As time goes by, developers will just start making more PC exclusives. There will be less console ports and PC ports, because of the huge hardware difference.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:27 am

As time goes by, developers will just start making more PC exclusives. There will be less console ports and PC ports, because of the huge hardware difference.

and then the year later sony and microsoft are like HERE YOU GO and pc guys are like NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.............................

oh, and kinect is probably compatible with the next xbox

» Sat May 28, 2011 5:49 pm

My favorite games ever:

RPGs
Earthbound
FFVII
Morrowind

Adventure:
Zelda OoT and MM (N64)
King's Quest 6

Action/Shooting:
goldeneye (N64)
Halo 1
Metal gear solid series

with the exception of MGS and halo all those games have really dated graphics. It's what stays with you that matters the most, and graphics are the least important things in those games.

People are saying the graphics in Oblivion were terrible, but i remember when this looked AMAZING:
http://www.gamesbasemant.co.uk/userfiles/image/The%20Elder%20Scrolls%20IV%20Oblivion%202.jpg

Now all i see is bad textures/dated graphics

graphics should get better as time goes on, but in the end they are all gonna look like [censored] compared to whats coming next.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:40 pm

graphics don't matter as much as good story telling.

if graphics really mattered, no more books would be sold bc the movies would reign supreme.

sorry, i just believe a plot structure is needed in game play and anything else told by media.

right, because everyone knows that movies are the new cost effective way of portraying a story..

gaming is kind of like women, you are attracted by the looks and then you get to know whats underneath.

» Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 am

I don't care if it has Morrowind graphics it has the depth to match.

I agree with this mostly....if it did have the graphics of morrowind,was three times bigger and had really good animation...well....i wouldn't mind at all.
But if they can make a game look better/more real i'm also for that too....aslong as the other stuff is done first,story,gameplay etc.
Graphics can be important...this subject is'nt black and white,you can state cases for both.
I've just started playing morrowind again,and i'm loving it.I don't mind the graphics of the game ,even now in 2011.what is annoying is the animations.

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:22 am

Graphics do not matter, gameplay does. To make graphics better gameplay usually has to be sacrificed. If Skyrim used Oblivion graphics I be fine with it.

» Sat May 28, 2011 7:33 am

What I mean is, if they focus too much on graphics then the gameplay will start to lack, like in most games nowadays.

How? Most games today aren't great because /they aren't great/, not because we're suddenly getting better graphics. Most games forever haven't been very good, and graphics have been getting better and better.

I realise it's nice to have a scapegoat, but graphics don't make games worse, the two don't affect each other like that.

» Sat May 28, 2011 9:03 am

Gameplay is better than graphics.

I just saw on Wikipedia that perks would be in the game... I saw it before on the forum, and I also saw that it may not be in the game...

I don't want perks... I want attributes, like in Morrowind. I want classes and costum classes ; I don't want to play Fallout 3 in a medieval world. ... If there's perks, am buying PC, and gona look for mods to remove perks!

For me, that would lower the gameplay a bit...

» Sat May 28, 2011 11:53 am

Post limit reached.