I just finished DA2, and all I can say is "wow". :drool:

It was refreshing to have more gray areas. I'm not going to spoil anything, but at the ending, even if you did what was best at the end you didn't feel like the knight in shining white armor. You didn't ride off into the sunset with people cheering your name. This might not be a "gray area" but it was breaking a cliche. There are many points in the game where you have to stop and think on what to do instead of clicking "generic good guy response to evil demon" and "generic bad guy response to evil demon". :glare:

With you being the one destined to save the world from Alduin it will be difficult to do this. But maybe outside of the MQ they could try to break some cliches. I'm hoping Skyrim will have more substance to it, it won't match up to the way DA2 pulled it off, but I'd like to see it.

Maybe this level of depth in decision making doesn't belong in Skyrim. Maybe they could atleast take some pointers? What do you all think?


Edit: Sorry I should've made something more clear. Gray Areas mean parts where there is no option that everyone would agree is right and noble. For example, a man who mudered four people escapes from jail for the third time. You find him and he surrenders to you. You realize that he might escape again and kill more people. Do you kill an unarmed man to save future victims?

Not the best example, but it's the best I could think of.

Personally I found Fallout: New Vegas more grey, then Dragon Age 2. I do want more grey area however. More area in general actually.

**POSSIBLE SPOILERS**

In FNV, no matter who you went with (House, NCR, etc.) they all had a little bit of corruption in them. For example. House wanted to make a better world, but he wanted to control it. NCR wanted more land to eventually re-establish an American government. Caesars legion was a bunch of slavers, but Caesar himself just wanted to re-educate the world, his methods were flawed however.

In DA2 I felt like no matter what you did the end result would be the same. I have only finished the game once so far, but to my knowledge there are no major game changers. It's only grey because there is no black and white. Thats how I felt atleast.

Make NPCs more believable by having gray areas, in both quests and their lifestyles.

I'd like some gray areas outside the main quest. I think the main quest will be fairly straightforward in the ridding the world of dragons and stopping Alduin, but it might be nice to have the PC have some deciding factor in the civil war on the side. In addition to that you still have the thieves guild for shades of gray, and hopefully the mages guild equivalent will be more neutral rather than just lawful good.

Good poll! I do want more gray areas, my guy is usaly a kind guy but has some darker sides and will spare no quarter for his enemies. To se a more neutral or "ill help you but only so far" would be great. Imagination of this made oblivion so much better.

what is grey areas?

It's were the struggle between good and evil meet. Or in other words, when someone is good, but has a dark side or a troubled past. Like Zuko in the Last Air Bender (if you make fun of me for that I'll kill you!. It's a critically acclaimed show that was actually intended for young advlts and therefore has drama instead of just childish humor.)

...Anyone who thinks TES is about good guys/bad guys isn't paying enough attention. The very world it takes place in is known as the "Grey Maybe".

My character on Oblivion is the perfect "gray" character. If something she does benefits her, she'll do it. It doesn't matter to her if the decision is a good or a bad one. Also, since i've played WoW for a long time, which is traditional Black and White, I need a good game that covers the gray areas.

Ever played Morrowind? There was a really good mix there... read below:


So... to say that it's like you propose, that black and white is boring, is very very simplistic view. Black and white can be absolutely AWESOME.
Moreover, to say that "good guy/bad guy endings are the way TES is." is very false. Just look at Morrowind. Who the bad guy actually was depends on how you look at things and interpret them. Morrowind's way of mixing the gray and black and white areas was amazing.

Morrowind had tons of gray areas. The only truly evil faction was House Dagoth, and no faction was completely good.

It was excellent, very well done.
And that's the way it should be. The metaphysical heart of TES is the grey reality produced by the interplay of two opposite extremes, Anu and Padhome.

I voted for gray areas, however I think the idea of Black and White vs. Gray is just wrong. Rather there should be a mixture of all three... There should be places that are white/good, places that are black/evil and places in the middle, where decisions might be greed but good, or that they might be just but evil. I think having all three would be best.

I think you need the black and white to have the gray. A nice mix of all three across the scope of the game would be ideal. Just having nothing but gray would be boring.

Even house Dagoth was arguably not entirely evil.
Dagoth was insane, and his methods and goals were deplorable, but his motivations were actually quite good. At least, in my opinion.

1 thing that always annoys me in all games is the difference between good and evil. Good should be harder and less rewarding, evil should be easier and more rewarding, at least in most cases. It's easier to kill someone before stealing an important item from them than it is to do a quest to gain their trust.

Good ol' Harold, from Fallout. In Fallout 3, you choose to either kill him (without setting him on fire), killing him with fire, and making the tree either bigger or smaller. The good and bad thing are the same, but the good takes more work. The neutral is the same as good.

uhh random off topic post reply .... is there a way to delete comments?

Well if taking over the world one by one is a good intention, then yes.

Why should evil be more rewarding? People generally reward good behavior over bad behavior since we live in societies... Evil options should be about personal greed, yes. But people should hate you for it and you'd have less social status where if you are good people would reward you and you'd get more social status, so actually being good should be more rewarding then being evil, while being evil should be easier. That said easier options also should mean you don't get the strength you get from challenges you face either and be weaker then the guy/girl fighting that large minotaur like creatures in the wild to save a lost child... or to avenge a lost child.

Just out of curiosity,did you play Morrowind? ;D

That bugged the heck out of me in FO:NV. I thought I'd done pretty well, through the game, but then the final slideshow was full of "yeah, and this svcks, and this svcks, and these guys lost out, and you didn't help them, and....."

And I was all like :sadvaultboy:

I vote for gray areas, because more choices makes you more involved with your character, and that's how RPGs are supposed to be.

Gray factions and guilds would be nice.
You like a guild a lot but that certain aspect of it makes you go "Oh I shouldn't side/join with these people..."

I played Morrowind but not that much. I didn't use it or NV as an example just because I had DA2 on the mind, the ending is what gave me the idea for the thread.

No offense, but I found DA:2 to be a horrible game due to EA rushing the game.

As for grey areas, I'd love to see more of those, not the generic GOOD and EVIL stuff. more nuetral stuff pl0x