But they aren't Arabic. And the land of Hammerfall is different to that of [let me refer to it as a whole:] Persia. We have no ideas about the horses, apart from they were seemingly present in Northern Hammerfall, as the Bretons had adopted them as a useful resource early on in the first Era. And neither are they Samurai's. Samurais took honour to their houses, and their families. Redguards honour themselves, it is almost selfish, but it's their culture.

By the way, I get the idea that horses are dishonourable, becuase they are an unecessary upperhand, that contradicts the pride Redguards have. It makes it a victory of two, rather than a victory of one.

Thanks for clarifying on Swordsingers, I assume I got that BS from somewhere .

The arabic reference was meant for Immortal Blood, my buddy who loves to base all TES cultures off of real life ones. Persia is not the only Arabian place that existed just so you know, and those guys were known as Persians. I never said they were Samurai, whose honor pertained very much to themselves, as well as family. Like ol'man Albides stated already, practicality comes before honor. And if Redguards despised anything useful besides themselves, they would never use ships, and they certainly would not have a cannon.

With 58 tenents for Ra Gada honor, one would imagine there honor goes to far more then themselves.

Then there is also the fact that even though races have stereotypes, there are always offsets in the culture. Forebears and Crowns have super different looks on things, and Nomads secluded from all others wouldn't really give two damn's about the rest of society's rules on horses, and thats if we say they dont use horses, which is to say....silly.

But just as viable is my point.

Nor have you seen any proof that there are horses populating Hammerfall, and I have given you proof of it being dishonourable to use a steed as a Redguard. And my proof isn't taking bias as you say, from real world nomadic cultures. Instead it's based off the personality of the most basic Redguards.

I assume that the plain land nearby the Bjoulsae would be more suited to the grazing horses (north from the river) and the Dragontail mountains would be a rather large geographic obstacle for horses to cross. And if Redguards did have any distinct relation to horses (as the Bretons did) then would it not be mentioned in the PGE?

The arabic reference was meant for Immortal Blood, my buddy who loves to base all TES cultures off of real life ones. Persia is not the only Arabian place that existed just so you know...

A big stumbling block being that Persia isn't or wasn't Arabian.

Good

Looks like I just posted exactly what you said above anyway. We aren't gettign anywhere but it's fun.

I do somewhat portray them as consumed with only personal honour. And practicality can only suit to further that concept by the way. Practicality means nothign can get in your way, and is another way of respecting your own honour. In that you are not letting yourself get weighed down by things that aren't necessities, that many others are becuase of binds of social honour rather than personal.

E.G You have to ride a horse, because the rest of the cavalry does. And you have to download the horse armour.... hehe..

But just as viable is my point.

Nor have you seen any proof that there are horses populating Hammerfall, and I have given you proof of it being dishonourable to use a steed as a Redguard. And my proof isn't taking bias as you say, from real world nomadic cultures. Instead it's based off the personality of the most basic Redguards.

I assume that the plain land nearby the Bjoulsae would be more suited to the grazing horses (north from the river) and the Dragontail mountains would be a rather large geographic obstacle for horses to cross. And if Redguards did have any distinct relation to horses (as the Bretons did) then would it not be mentioned in the PGE?
No I know I just wanted to generalise with Persia.

Practicality is put before honour, I would agree. But that is why I don't deny the Redgards used pack animals, but to be honest horses can be liabilities in combat. And Just because a horse is 'arabic' doesn't mean it won't run off in the wrong direction, admittedly really fast. And I don't picture horses being used as pack animals. They don't have the same endurance as a camel let's say.

Anyway, more to the point, until thier is proof eitehr way, I am not denying your point effectively, and you aren't denying mine effectively either, so they are both just possibilities we are debating at the moment.

Yeah well for once those 1700 and 1800s folks knew what they were doing.

Damn, I just found the thread heh.

I was going to add in the fact that even though the Imperial Legions are always branded "roman legion based", they are stated quite clearly to be famous and effective because of there extreme versatility in being able to employ any type of unit. That means horses.
I find it way easier to believe Redguards would have better horsemanship if we're to believe there based solely off other cultures. Say there based off Arabic, some of the fastest horses in the world are arabian breeds. Deserts have been home to some of the finest horses.

As for plains meaning that Dres Dunmer are some of the best riders, thats just silly since America was full of plains and we had no horses until the Conquistadors brought them across seas. In roleplays and stories, we can say whatever we want. But with true lore, I am just being the guy that says "nah uh".

Now, Swordsingers. They dont use vocal magic, thats just figurative language, as the Redguards call swordplay: the song of the blade. Way of saying Swordsmen, only it has taken a deeper meaning to a specific group, who are known as the Swordsingers. Warrior monks in Temples called: The Halls of the Virtue of War. They dont use singing magic, and whoever says they travel continents by singing, is most likely thinking of Nordic Tounges. They are the ones who use voice magic to travel, sharpen weapons, and harm foes. To not steer the thread off track go ahead and PM me if you require sources. And where in the world did one get the sense that horses are unhonorable?

Samurai used them, and they took honor to a whole new level.

So Redguards get my vote as some of the best horseman, especially with Nomads in the culture, since beasts of burden and mounts have been extremely important in most nomad cultures. Bretons definately get a major vote, but I still gotta [censored]z with my Raga.

Not really. It was the same Empire.
Yes but the Americas were kind of seperated from the rest of the world by a couple of oceans. The Dashaan plains are not. The best breed of horses in Cyrodiil are raised by Dunmer in Cheydinhal which leads me to believe that Dunmer somewhere are good horseman. My assumption leads me to the Dres since they own the Dashaan planes.

And if we use the Americas example...once the American Indians did get aquainted with horses they quickly adopted them as their own and were good at cavalry raiding tactics. Other then the lame excuse the Morrowind makers made which refered to Vvardenfell not even the whole of Morrowind, there is nothing that suggests Dunmer would not have any horses.

Why are there no horses in Morrowind?
For two reasons. First, Dark Elves like them as a foodstuff. Second, native grasses of :dance: Morrowind :dance: give horses a bad, and often terminal, case of tummy ache.

Source: Ken Rolston in one of his pre-Morrowind online interviews.

They have far more pride in themselves as warriors, and sicen their families aren't involved in the combat aspect thats why I made the choice of opinion i made.

While they do have pride as all races do, and then some. Having Honor also means doing something even though it may leave you at a horrible disadvantage, it also means swallowing your Pride and doing as your Lord commands. Pride and honor may cross paths frequently, but are not the same.

Since when are horses in battle dishonorable...?

I am surprised no one has yet mentioned the obvious choice, namely the "horse people" of the Bjoulsae...

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=831169&view=findpost&p=12082803

The Legion does have very competent patrolmen in cyrodiil. The Roman cavalry was very important and effective, even if most of their forces were infantry.

Redguards being a desert nomadic people would have every reason to use horses. True, their horses probably wouldn't be the destriers that heavily armoured knights use. Their cavalry like that of the Arabs or Ottomans would probably be light and fast. The heavily armoured knights are more likely to have originated in Nord or Imperial culture. If the Dunmer of mainland MW use horses in combat to any great extent I'd imagine they'd be suited to horse archery.