I'm a tad curious about Great House Indoril. I was thinking, perhaps, it could make quite a nice mod. I'd like to know a few things about the in-game lore. Certain parts may require speculation.

What is Indoril architecture outside of Mournhold? Do they have thier own personal architecture? Do they use Vivec-esque architecture? Do they use temple architecture? Do they use Mournhold architecture? Do they use the very dungeon looking Old-Mournhold architecture?
I don't think Mournhold could be a good example of the unquestionable definate Indoril architecture, it may be the Indoril captial, but it was built by and for Almalexia, on top of old ruins, which look completely different to Mournhold.

What armour do Indorils use? I think I read somewhere that the reason Ordinator armour is called Indoril armour, is because most ordinators are a part of Indoril. I may be wrong there. Perhaps being a part of House Indoril requires you to be a part of the Temple? Being so close to the Temple, and most Indoril member wear it.

Apparently, Accoring to TIL, in the first five lessions of Vivec, there's often talk of an "egg of Vivec" in a "netchiman's wife" that was ordered to take to House Indoril. How metaphorical could this be? It could be a nice twist to have Vivec's child. If so, what would happen with the whole heart of Lorkhan mess? Could it be possible to affect the child of one who uses it? We've never known anyone who done this to have a child, so I'm not too sure. And, if not, would Vivec protect this child with divine measures? Or would he want him to live a "normal" life, with risk and injury? Being a god can distort your perception of mortal desires.

How tolerant of the Empire are they? No Great House, other than Hlaalu are in favour of them, but some are tolerant. There's a few Telvanni and Redoran towns with Imperial influence. Remember that the majority of powerful Indoril nobles killed themselves after knowing they'd be serving the Empire.

Are there any known ranks? I'm not sure what to call the guy in charge of Indoril, as he's only reffered to as the High Counsiler, which is because he's a part of Morrowind's counsil.

What are relations with the other houses? They seem likely allies with House Dres seem to be another "orthodox" house, being reliant on slavery, and opposing the empire. I read on TIL, that "Houses Dres and Indoril would fight to the death", if the treaty where to be passed. I guess this means that they'd fight together against the Empire, since they have similar wants. I know they hate House Hlaalu.

Is there a reason why there's no Indoril influence in Vvardenfell? They seem one of the most likely to be there, being so close to the Temple.

It would also be nice to share anything I mightn't know. Be it speculation or lore. I'd like to implement as much as possible.

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I believe that's all for now. While I'm here, I'll share my plot. Some parts may be negated to the question above. Don't worry about it;

The whole point of the early questline of House Indoril involves you finding the son of Vivec. You'll be involved in a plot to remove Helseth from the throne and replace him with the son of Vivec. This will all be ordered to you by the second-in-command, in secret. Once you find out of the plot, you can tell the Hlaalu guy in charge, and settle for the place of the second-in-command, or continue to do everything. If you continue with the plot, you'll eventually become involved in another plot to kill the High Counciller. Once this happens, the second-in-command guy will be promoted to the new guy in charge of Indoril. You will then be told to help with the reccomendation of this guy to be in the council, and become the High Councilman himself. You'll have to journey around to some high-up members of Morrowind. You'll need to go to the likes of Vedam Dren, Orvas Dren, The High ranking members of other great houses apart from Hlaalu, and members of the Temple. You'll have to convince members of the great houses that he's a good choice for the interests of thier house.

Once the guy in charge is announced High Counsiler, He'll demote himself down, and place you incharge of the House. You'll be able to then chose a second-in-command, and use him to build up your stronghold. It will be the first Indoril stronghold in Vvardenfell. (The Indoril base for quests will be located in Mournhold)

You'll then be able to change the sway of things yourself. You can chose to settle the fighting with Hlaalu, by letting them become influential in your stronghold, or corrupt them, and they will eventually fall. You'll be able to take House Hlaalu, and earn thier profits.

You can also chose to kill Vedam Dren, and eventually remove Imperial influence from Vvardenfell, letting you control them, and earning profits from them, or you can side with them, and let them have influence in your stronghold.

Does all this make sense regarding to lore? I thought I'd give the ability to join with the Empire/Hlaalu, incase the player is corrupt, himself.

Ordinators are Indoril, while Vivec is temple/velothi design. An Ordinator is essentially called an "Indoril". The masks they wear are supposetly resembling of Nerevar's face.

I doubt they use any architecture seen in Morrowind, since Mournhold is mainly designed in Almalexia's image, while Vivec by the temple. Cities housed by Indoril are likely completely different. Though I never really understood why indoril guards are stationed at temple districts. They're only really close to the temple because they're religious, and hate imperial law.

In fact, the Necrom screenshots in the Tamriel Rebuilt mod are likely similar to real Indoril design.

Uesp page is here, in case you didn't know about it.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:House_Indoril

I also don't think Indoril like Vivec very much, since he killed their chimer lord. If I had to guess, they're only fighting along side him to end the crisis from Red Mountain. Though according to lore, apparently Indoril is in ruins thanks to Helseth, House Dres, and House Hlaalu.

No one knows about that, they think he died in war. Even the player doesn't get told, it's not entirely known, it's more of an assumption


That's during Oblivion. Sorry, I should have specified, all of my answers are based around Morrowind's time.

True, but I'm sure there was some sort of suspicion. If you were to make an Indoril mod, you'd likely have to have the character come from the mainland (Or just make a temporary holding), or just be an Ordinator guarding Vivec.

EDIT: After reading your mod suggestion a bit, few more things to say. I highly doubt Hlaalu would recommend anyone for ranking power in Indoril, nor would they ask anyone for it. I also doubt they would work together enough for Indoril to "Corrupt" them. (Which they would so do, if they did work together.)

Either velothi (it was the original architecture used by the Chimer) or something similiar to the ruins - only less ruined Though you could go with saying their rebuilt their holdings to honor their goddess (and used the Mournhold style).


I'd say some kind of bonemold. While House Indoril is very close to the Temple (and might require Temple membership to rise in ranks), the "Indoril armor" is given only to Ordinators (who may come from ANY House)- and they serve the Temple, not the Houses they came from.


The egg contained Vivec himself - not a child of his.


I'd say extremely intolerant. While they probably won't use open violence, they will show the Outlanders their despise at every possible time in every possible way. Also, from Great Houses of Morrowind (ingame book): "House Indoril is openly hostile to Imperial culture and religion, and preserves many traditional Dunmer customs and practices in defiance of Imperial law"


Nope.


Probably close to being allies with the Dres and somewhat more friendly with House Redoran - but not too much. They probably hate both Hlaalu and Telvanni.


I'd say the House was too weakend to fight with the other Houses for influence.

I've always seen http://images.uesp.net//0/08/MW-concept-indoril.jpg shown to be a typical Indoril. May be due to the confusion of the armour name, though. Looks to me like Indoril armour. Also, if as said above, Indoril armour is supposed to represent Nerevar, surely, they'd want to wear it?



Is there any reasoning for not liking the Telvanni? They seem quite similar to me.


I thought Indoril was the strongest House of all? If not, it was definatly at one point, and should have holding in Vvardenfell. Esecially because of the religious value of it.


Anyway, thanks for the answers. Very helpful.

I started writing a long post and then realized I can just say:

Karpik777 is right on all accounts.


Early in Morrowind's history, maybe. By the end of the first era it was greatly weakened. Vvardenfell was barred from colonization specifically due to its religious value, and except for the city of Vivec all settlements are modern and likely frowned upon by the most traditional (read: religious) Dunmer.

It's a concept of the Indoril armor (which - as was said - is worn only by Ordinators. Anyone (and I do mean anyone - apart from the Three - would get a death penalty from them for wearing one).


Basically the Telvanni don't care about the Temple, it's teachings and laws.


:blush:

Fair enough. Seems there is a lot of confusion about Indoril Armour.

What about High Ranking members of the Temple? Surely, being those that outrank the Ordinaters, they'd be fine to do so? I get that I can't in-game, but that's game limits. Can't always connect it to actual lore. I don't really expect the three to be the kind who would care about such things, so I would think it's a rule created by mortals. And I don't think they'd make it so they can't wear it themselves.

There is, there was and there will be tons of confusion on the issue - or even more...


The Ordinators are fanatical warriors - some of them (if not most) might go as far as attacking Temple superiors for wearing them. While the rule most likely comes from mortals, the Ordinators aren't just warriors in the Temple - they form separate Orders, serving Almalexia and answer to the Alma Rula in Almalexia (and not just any local Temple authorities). Look at one of the quests from Duke Dren - Saryoni (highest Temple official on Vvardenfell) needs some leverage to influence the Ordinators (in that case showing that some outlander did what they failed to do).

Ok. Fair enough. Should be my last question; would House Indoril be guarded by Ordinaters? Considering the majority of them are members of House Indoril. Or would they use thier own guard? Or both?

Their own guards. Ordinators guard Temple cities/strongholds.

While were on this topic of House Indoril, I have a question. Did Lord Indoril Nerevar found House Indoril (Kind of a stupid question since his name is "Indoril", but I just want to make sure...).

No, he did not.

I think he was just a high ranking Indoril. How high? Was he the big in charge guy?

I am pretty sure he did...I know challenging your lore is almost sure to fail , but I think I read it somewhere...gotta check the wiki.

There we go:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nerevar

"Indoril Nerevar was the Chimeri king of Resdayn (modern-day Morrowind), a war hero who united his people, and the founder of House Indoril"

It may possibly be wrong too, but I still think I read it somewhere ^^
No wonder he's that loved by them though
Also, I don't think at the point where Morrowind takes place, that Indoril and Dres are allies anymore. Dres was becoming more and more commercial and tried to ally with King Hlaalu Helseth (which they did later on), while the Indoril surely despise Hlaalu and the imperial ways. Also, as the later history showed, Indoril was several hurt by them a few years later, so I suspect the situation to be a bit rough in between them, but this isn't totally clear...

UESP is edited by fans blah blah etc. etc. find me a book source. I can think of is the 36 Lessons of Vivec, which clearly show that Indoril is around before Nerevar becomes important. The other thing that comes to mind is Nerevar's full name, Indoril Nerevar Mora, which shows that he is of house Mora (which is part of Great House Indoril, perhaps via marriage to Almalexia).

Feel free to "challenge" me I am far from omnipotent.

UESP Is edited by fans who are constantly overwatched by administrators who make sure everything is valid and true, and discuss them thoroughly if they aren't. Anything on UESP is likely to be true. It's not world history like Wikipedia has to deal with.

And these administrators can suffer from the same fallacies that their fan counterparts do, or otherwise be deficient in knowledge or derelict in duty. There is no excuse to not use book sources in a discussion on lore, as the book sources are readily available.

If it were, we* wouldn't have to keep making edits. Sure, there aren't any more blatant butt-pulls that a quick search turns up (though there most certainly used to be, and though there are still plenty of smaller errors), but the articles are not complete and more importantly not sourced. You can't tell where the article is getting its information from - it could be a snippet from Arena, a joke book in Daggerfall, or dialog in Oblivion, each of which caries a different level of canonicity, its own bias, its own historical setting, etc. Considering factors beyond words is vital in the study of any sort of history, religion, or of fiction, and you can't do that in a synthesized article.


Also, this.

*general "we, the people"

Of course books can have their own bias, or inaccuracies however. *cough* Alessia Ottus *cough*

Anywho, back on topic, why does House Indoril have close ties with the Temple, I mean what would've been the reason that Indoril, not another House would be favored by the Temple? And are high ranking Temple officials typically Indoril as well, and vice versa?

Books tend to be much more informative and correct, it is easy enough to spot biases, and you are quoting from a source (in-game books) not a mouth piece (fan write ups), which is big for citing sources (using mouth pieces is wrong, using sources is correct). I'll leave it at that.


Well, it was the house Nerevar was in. With that, the house adopted a highly fanatical pro-Temple stance, and as such is favored by the Temple. They probably also provide the most support for the Temple and tasks in behalf of the Temple. Not to mention, the house is probably Alamanexia's favorite house, due to it being Nerevar's house.

Yeah that's true, I was just playing devil's advocate. Come to think of it actually, I can't think of anything that biased in TES other than the various guides in OB and the Temple literature in Morrowind at times.


Makes sense.


Awe. :hugs:

I don't think Nerevar was ever married to Almalexia. She was his consort.

Since he was referred to as Lord Nerevar Indoril during the time of the War of the First Council, then I'd say that he was the head of House Indoril. However, it didn't necessarily be a Great House at the time.

Oh dear. There's a lot wrong with that. First, Velothi architecture is associated with the Chimer, yes, meaning that the newly created Dunmer and the Dunmer from then on would try and make a conscious break from that because the Tribunal's first rhetoric when they ascended was to embrace their new form and forget about the old ways, rife with Daedra worship. Building your structures in the style of your Daedra worshiping ancestors=respecting/honoring them, which = respecting Daedra worship. Yes it's true that the temple (especially Vivec's temple, but also Necrom) adopted the Velothi style, but there is a definite difference between their structures and old Velothi. Namely, the use of a transcribed circle within a square or rectangle.

Finally, Mournhold represents some of the newer architectural trends in Indoril territory because it had to be rebuilt and so it was created to pay homage and respect to Almalexia. This line of thinking and respect would've formed the primary architectural style for the region since the Indoril are so religious. Mind you, however, Mournhold represents the highest class, so their buildings are all naturally ostentatious. Middle-Upper class structures would likely use less bronze and metal and instead use painted wood to look like tarnished bronze. It would probably also use more awnings in the style you see in the tents or the tavern. The windows and doors would obviously be plainer, but would still use those circle-within-rectangle shapes. Door-ways would probably still use that rounded triangle look, but it would probably not reach as far out from the building. Lower class buildings would be all wood, only one floor (or cramped apartments), likely sacrifice the use of circles because they're not functional.

Point of advice, Cheydinhall is located nearish to the border of Indoril and Hlaalu. So once you remove the Nibenese and Hlaalu influences, you've got some Indoril hallmarks.

Actually, no. The twin swords Dumac gave them on their wedding day symbolize... they were married. I love killing my wife with Trueflame. I'm consuming her with my vigorous, new love, by executing her with it. Vigorously.