We've never really settled who was the greatest spellcaster in Tamriel, have we? We certainly have many candidates, from the Psijic, the Telvanni, and Mages Guild to individual, seperate individuals such as Phynaster, Shalidor, Magnus (does that guy really count?) Sotha Sil (again, does he count?), Nufalga and etc.

So, your thoughts?

I'd say Magnus, if he counts... Which I really think he shouldn't, would be a bit unfair to count the guy that pretty much created magic.

After that Sotha Sil, if he counts that is... Which he probably should, after all he wasn't a God to start with.

If you look at "mortals" however, I'd go with

Zurin Articus, Divayth Fyr and Jagar Tharn... Just because those are the names I can come up with and all three would make some sense.

Zurin, Arctus, Sotha Sil, Dyviath Fry, or some Psijic would be my vote. Discounting Magnus, as he is a divine. Yeah, so was Sotha Sil, but even before his ascension, he was quite the accomplished Psijic.

Divayth Fyr didn't ever die/leave the world (that we know of... it's possible the Red Year made him go *poof*). That makes him the "best", from one way of looking at it. "The best techniques are passed on by the survivors" and all that.

If I read my lore correctly, Magnus didn't "invent" magic, Magnus IS magic. As in, you're borrowing a part of him/it's lingering essence when you cast a spell. If Magnus counts, then you're basically asking for who the best JFK impersonator in all history would be while allowing JFK himself into the competition.

Several others that I was thinking of have already been mentioned, but how about Mannimarco? Discounting his dubious "appearance" in Oblivion, of course.

(Vanus Galerion also came to mind, but thinking about it a bit he didn't really do all that much on his own, he was more about organising others.)

Zurin and Jagar Tharn get my vote. Tharn was not only an accomplished battlemage, but he was also quite political savvy for the most part until he got lazy and let the Empire go to hell. Many of Uriel's exploits in Morrowind were orchestrated by Tharn.

No, the only thing Magnus did was allow magicka to spill over from the Aetherius. How? He ripped a hole into the Aetherius when escaping from the creation of Mundus, which allows magicka to saturate Oblivion and Mundus.

Charlie Chaplin once finished 3rd in a Charlie Chaplin imitation contest... So you know, it is possible...



I read a quote from one the Devs here once, don't know remember where or who said it. But Fyr is definitely still alive. Still i'm not entirely sure I agree with what your saying... Sotha Sil was an accomplished mage, regardless of him being killed by Almalexia. I don't think Fyr could have bested him in any straight up contest... So my vote would go to Sotha Sil.

I would argue that part of being "great" is knowing where you have no business going. Sotha Sil's death was a long-term result of his use of the Heart of Lorkhan (the closest thing to a "forbidden fruit" I can think of in TES), whereas Fyr, through luck or mishap or even choice, has not made any enemies/friends powerful enough to kill him, with the motivation to do so.

Granted, Sil may have had no idea that Almalexia would come gunning for him. He still died; a good chunk of my arbitrary "Greatness Scale" can then be said to be influenced by blind luck/Fate/selection pressures. I still say that the "greatest Wizard evah" would have to be one who has not been slain... which still leaves the field open to other divinomages, like the half-dozen Altmer archmages who've all ascended in one way or another (ascension being a poor excuse for death, even if it does technically remove them from the mortal sphere).

Perhaps I am reading my lore incorrectly, then, but I thought that while the hole Magnus ripped while getting out was "the sun", the act of ripping that hole forced Magnus to leave a giant chunk of him/itself behind, which is what became magic.

To say that the hole itself just lets magic spill in would mean that magic is actually solar power...

A rat may always know how to escape from a sinking ship, but that doesn't necessarily make one great.

"Greatness" in terms of "who can throw the biggest fireball" may have little practical meaning, but it's the only fair, objective means of measure. Otherwise, we can get into a "No True Scotsman" argument where we qualify or disqualify every aspect of a mage we want to stack the deck in the favor of our own subjective biases.

I'll concede that last point, but let me real quickly state that, if that one rat always survives sinking ships (or never dies in one), then it does make it greater than all the other rats that do die (via sinking ship, at the very least), in my opinion.

:spotted owl:

I would say Mannimarco.

He broke out of the traditions of his people to pursue his own endeavors.
Despite being worked against by people like Gaileron he kept his eyes on his goal and achieved apotheosis.

Of those we have actually seen or met, I'd say Jagar Tharn. His feats were at least incredible.

Seht.

My money's on Fyr.

Divayth Fyr (he was lvl 65 like ten years ago, wonder what lvl he is now lol and hes over 4,000 years old...)

No Galerion? Or Mannimarco?

First off, I'm only going to consider non-divine entities. No Magnus, no Sotha, no Syrabane, no Zurin (Talos). Then we have to consider the major orders / organizations. Mages guild, College, Mirror-logicians, Psijiics, Telvanni, and Necromancers. The Guild has had the greatest temporal influence, but they haven't done anything spectacular in the metaphysics department, AFAIK. Mirror-Logicians have put up a good fight v.s. the most poerful robot ever for a few hundred years, but I would hardly call stalling a robot-god a victory. The Psijiics can teleport islands around, and smash whole fleets, which is very cool. The Telvanni seem to have treated the OB crisis like it was nothing, but they failed to end it, and haven't achieved anything spectacular that we know of. Finally, we have the loose association of necromancers, who have, among other things, twisted a daedric artifact to their own whims (black star), and constantly spit in Arkay's face. I'd say its a tie between the Psijiics and the Necromancers.

For individuals (what this thread is really about) its quite hard to say. Choosing the most powerful mortal wizard is kinda like choosing the best failure. Everyone who's truly great becomes a god, one way or another. But from the leftovers, Divayth "I know all the secret doors between the realms" Fyr is probably the most powerful.

If we include gods, Zurin absolutely wins, as he now has CHIM and regular-strength godhood and is the core of the mofu Numidium and is the Underking, iirc.

Galerion died as he fought Mannimarco, with Mannimarco still walking around. Safe to say Mannimarco is more powerful than Galerion, or at least much more clever.

mannimarco, sotha sil, jagar tharn and many of those others were legitimately defeated. what great things did galerion actually do?

Greatst Wizard? Hmm... I'm gonna go with a Divayth Fyr and Sotha Sil tie.

Remember, Mannimarco was only half-defeated. Due to the Warp in the West, he ended up staying an ordinary, if powerful elf, and becoming a giant celestial body capable of eclipsing Arkay, at the same time. (Shade of the Revenant.)

I seriously disagree...

Mannimarco became a god, and was defeated at the same time. So I wouldn't count that either way really.. The reasons for Sotha Sil's defeat could be a million different things. According to Vivec he no longer felt the need to stay alive, with everything over and his divine power gone he didn't seem to care much anymore. So I'm not entirely sure if he was actually defeated in a straight up fight, or just stopped fighting all together.