I'm not bashing oblivion, i'm saying if we want o follow lore – not game mechanics – tribes are much bigger than 26 goblins.

indeed. and are we going to give the gobs levels ? that's kind of hard to use in a rp i think.

@ the luggage: indeed that picture is exactly what i meant. :tongue:

mmmmmm you may be right about their numbers but we should just start small saying for some reason or another most of our tribes were killed... adventurers, ogre tribes mmm natural disaster cave in ect, or just having a tiny group to begin with. so we can get a feel for this gobo thing were doing remember if we will be attacking each other most likely and being raided by treasure hunters and the legion and who knows some great goblin uniter may come along and make one great tribe and we will take out a city or something. ahhhhhhh all the things we can do!

we can recruit some ogres maybe even a few minotaurs and well we could stomp face on town guards then!! making a small goblin kingdom and doing it the goblin way find place we like kill what ever is in it and take it as our own!!!

maybe i have an idea for a pointd system too.

i suggest everyone has 100 points to spend on troops, 50points to spend on weapons and 50 points to spend on magicka.

the warlord (one weapon included) and shaman(stave included) come for free.
troops:

goblin welps - 1 point (welps can't be used in battle, but they are used to get food and scavenge whatever they can find. they are also replacements for goblins that died in battle. if you lose a goblin in battle it gets replaced by a welp which becomes the class of the dead gob.)

goblin rat farmers - 2points (they farm rats as a livestock and can be used in battle. although not as effective as skirmishers, berserkers and guardians. the can use the spear and shield.)

goblin skirmishers - 5 points (main goblin troops, they are quick and agile. they use daggers, shortswords, one handed blunt weapons, bows or crossbows.)

goblin berserker - 7points (stronger and bigger than skirmishers, they go in hard and heavy. their weapons of choice are the longswords, claymores and blunt weapons.)

goblin guardian - 10 points. (the best goblin troops there are. simply proven by the fact that they experienced tenfolds of raids and survived them. they are the strongest and biggest goblins and they have some brain to think on their own when fighting. they are mostly used as bodyguards of the totem staff and shaman, never leaving them. they can use all weapons.)

shaman apprentice - 30 points. (the apprentice of the shaman. less skilled in the ways of magicka but still a great asset on the battlefields. they do come at a high price. you can have only one apprentice at a time. they can use staves and dagers.)

weapons: 50 points to distribute.

daggers and spears - 2points
one handed blunt weapons, shortswords - 4 points
longswords, shields, bows and crossbows - 6 points
two handedd weapons - 8 points
staves - starting from 15 points. for each level of stave (lesser, greater, superior,...) the price goes up with 5 points

note: this is all for iron and rusted iron. if you want steel the price dubbles and each level of material higher will cost you another 5 points beginning from steel.

magicka: 50 points to distribute.

a bunch of spells all diferent in power, cost and price. but i don't know which ones.

hold on now! lol whelps got to do something they should be able to gather food and come equipped with the worst bow and arrows possible.

President grunt promises that no whelp will be left behind or will go without a bow and arrows!!

in a realistic and tactical sense you cant have guys that do nothing! it be a waste of food infact id use them for food then

yeah but they are only welps so they aren't skilled enough to hunt or raid villages. they can search for food but i don't see gobos eating apples :-p

edit: send them in search for food and you have a risk of them dying because they have no real experience. so i consider keeping them as a background group to replace fallen goblins. you're not supposed to spent all hundred points on welps.

lol true but we need scavengers you know? and grobi are omnivores they will eat anything edible besides what of my chefs or goblin cooks as we see them in game?

forgot about them :-p sorry. but i guess goblins don't really care for cooking, raw, burned i don't think it matters for them. i guess the welps can be scavengers and look for food, i'll update. now i'm not sure about chefs or cooks.

... I hate Gavril's system. Partially because of the "Whelp" idea.

You'd be surprised how well levels work with PvP games. This is less a standard Board RP, and more a play-by-post Strategy Game.

I see a single Level 10 berzerker completely curbstomping 10 normal goblins and being equal to 5 skirmishers in melee. Ranged combat and basic tactics change the ratio to 1:8 and 1:3 respectively. The chieftan himself is even more powerful.

Someone who makes an All-Berzerker force would likely be devestating in pitched battles against numerically superior foes, but they can't take casualties well, have poor logistics, and bad intel. Also, no starting force will be capable of "Crashing" another's cave, due to traps, tactical "Home Field Advantage", and fortifications.

i have no idea how to roleplay with levels. it's not like you're gonna write: "five of my berzerker leveld from level 10 to level 11 during the raid." or something like that. make the point cost of the different types higher or lower the points you can distribute in general to halve. so 50 on troops and 25 on weapons and 25 on magicka.

well we can say that berserkers are all ten skirm are 5 and whelps one. i assume and then we must take gear into account honestly this is my first tiem doing something like this and i look forward to learning as we go along

yeah me too.

Do we really need levels? I feel they make it more complicated and difficult than it needs to be.

that's what i think to. just use some sort of points system to decide hwo your triba looks like and all tribes are ballanced in strenght and amount.

Yea, and obviously role playing comes into it. Heroic defenses can be possible when defending your inner most tribe base dependent on your fornications. I am also going to try and create a lore of sorts for my tribe. The Bloody-Hand tribe sounds like a very aggressive, kill-first-ask-questions-later type of tribe. I expect to be exceptional at combat, but take heavy losses due to starvation, and bad planning. Basically, we got the brawn, not the brains.

Hey all, I'm back. I'm formulating a point system with Scrow at the moment. I don't necessarily agree with the ratio system he's proposed about warrior classes though. I'll expand upon my ideas below. I'll get to each backlog post in time, and edit replies in to this one. Bear with me for a moment.

***


I'd originally claimed the Sharp-Tooth, but I've transferred them to you, in order to take control of something a little more... ambiguous. I'll be roleplaying random events and occurrences that will affect your tribes, so keep an eye out for my posts when it comes to the actual thread.


I'm sticking to a relatively small number. This is mostly so we can all trial run the concept without getting bogged down in numbers and such. Think of the opening as a tutorial of sorts, as we're all getting a hang of playing, where no-one yet has the strength to overthrow another tribe. This allows for a greater sense of expansion and success when you do get bigger and start conquering other caves anyway. The ogres and minotaurs would have to be approached as a special GM event, as a unique / one-off bonus.

Town guards will be getting involved. I'll be writing up a GM 'roll chart' to generate encounters for you lot. Oh, and bear in mind that if you raid an area a lot, or you're close to the max cave population, you'll attract more attention, which in turn increases the chances of guards investigating into the source of the goblin activity in the area. The latter part of your final paragraph meshes pretty perfectly with my idea. I'll publish a map of Cyrodil that has a grid superimposed over the top, and icons to represent villages / farms, and caves that you can inhabit. I'll have a list of what is in these caves, but this information wont be revealed to you until you put a goblin scouting party in to see what's there. If you like what you see, send a bigger force to clear it out, and have them set up camp.


I like the look of what you've done there. My ideas were close, but not exactly the same. My basic idea for making the standard goblin rank would be to make them scavengers / foragers, like you said. There would be a food resource that your tribe would be required to generate. Basic goblins would generate enough food to support themselves and one other goblin, due to their nature as scavengers. Goblins 'upgraded' as rat farmers would provide a lot more food. Goblins 'upgraded' as chefs would reduce the amount of food your tribe requires to function (due to the resources at hand being prepared better). Goblins would be able to be used as combat troops (although they'd be outclassed by specialised soldier goblins), while 'infrastructure' goblins like the farmer and chef would be combat incompetent.

All classes of soldier (Berserker, Skirmisher, Warlord, etc) would not generate food, due to the fact that they are too busy training or fighting. Soldiers can provide food by raiding villages and settlements however. Using the aforementioned GM roll chart, if your population exceeded your food resource, bad things would start to happen. Famine and starvation perhaps, or maybe disease caused by fatigue and weakness. It'd be in your interest to keep a good balance between soldiers and providers - or to be sure you can bring in the bacon forcibly from the farmers.


I think with levels, it would be easiest just to go with level 1, 2 and 3. That would be Goblin, Skirmisher and Berserker. The way to explain it in role play, would be that your 'upgraded' troops had gained experiences in the last few fights (or in the case of you upgrading them with points you'd gained out of combat, that they'd been in training bouts with the warlord itself). This would allow them to pick up new techniques and become more survivable and dangerous. Don't actually specifically reference to meta-information like levels themselves.


Wargear will be accounted for separately. For example, you could equip each goblin in your tribe with a steel sword and shield, as well as a bow, but there really isn't much point when the combined equipment would cost more than the creature it was being used by. If that goblin died, that's a big investment down the drain.

I think that's everything for now.

maybe we should divide amongst the goblins tribes and each tribe controls there teritory.

i wonder if it would be possible for a goblin tribe to set up a market with local farmers and the like. let's say my goblins take care of criminals for them and eliminates threats like groups of wolves that could kill the villages livestock, and in return they are paid with food and maybe weapons the villagers find and don't use.

Doesn't really sit comfortably with the image of the goblins that the games present. The only people that have really ever domesticated goblins to any extent are Altmer, and they require special trainers just to keep them in check. Goblins wouldn't really set up such deals on their own, due to their natural hostility and preference for violence over trade. Also, trying to draw up the game map at the moment.

This job really would be so much easier if I could talk to all of you that want to help by IM.

my tribe is going to be made of more stout goblins stronger and fatter than the average. btw eventually we got to all unite and take down a city!!! be sweet!

Any how my tribe will have many lower ranking goblins

40% normal gobos -equipped with bows/arrows, shorts swords- purpose- scouting,gathering,hunting
10% rat farmers- equipped with axes and shields-purpose- farming the many many rats as well as keeping stock on food, also as they have weapons they will defend/fight
10% cooks- equipped with decent armor well good for a gobo, steel swords=skirmisher-purpose- cooking and leading normals/rat farmers also they cook the food and keep track of supplies, they will fight in defense of the tribe in the inner works is were they are located,
30% berserkers, very well equipped these bad boys are the pride and joy of the tribe the largest and toughest of the grobi.
10% skirmisher- decently equipped the skirmishers are half melee half archers they cary light armor so they can move quickly they are the main raid/patrol force

Goblins of Note

Warlord Grunt - He is massive for a goblin some whisper that one of his ancestors was a ogre. Standing just under 7 feet tall and weighing close to 300 pounds this Goblin is not to be taken lightly. He is a warrior to the bone but also he is very intelligent for a goblin. He would rather keep his tribe well fed and safe then dead raiding some un important village. When Grunt was young he was taken as a slave to work for a imperial mage here he did whatever he had to be free. He watched his master and waited and learned. When the time was right he slew the mage and never looked back but always harboring a deep hatred for imperial people.
Grunt is equipped in the finest pillaged armor he could get. he wears a suit of full plate orcish armor, when fully equipped it does give him extra strength as well as making him much faster. As for a weapon Grunt wields the daedric claymore "Malacath's Tusk" that he took from his old master,which also imbues him with great strength but also will heal him slowly over time.

Shaman Feen - She is the tribal Shaman, Feen is very old and has born many many many goblins over the years and will continue to do so for many more. She now serves Grunt with all the mad fervor her small body contains. Feen though small standing 4 feet tall and very slight is a force to be reckoned with she has collected many magical artifacts throughout her long life and has studied each and every one. She specializes in destruction magic but she is able to do some healing too. She always has her "Staff of Storms" on her person which can call down lighting as well as produce heavy winds and rain. she also wears tattered necromancer robes that can help turn undead and reflect spells.

Shaman Apprentice Keel - She is Shaman Feen's Apprentice though young she shows great potential. She already knows all that Feen can teach her and is just biding her time till the elder goblin passes on. Though she wants to be Shaman she is in no hurry to do so. She would rather someone else worry about the tribe so she can grow even more powerful! Keel wields a simple " staff of flame" which when used will shoot fireballs as for clothing she wears a very clean red robe with a strong enchantment that increases her magicka by half as well as has a high chance of reflecting spells. She unlike her master is tall standing 5 and ahalf feet tall and like most of her tribe is portly.

Chef Grumble He is the second in command of the tribe. Grumble answers only to Grunt not even the Shaman hold sway over him. Grumble stands at 6 feet tall but weighs a staggering 400 pounds. This creature has a massive stomach but also huge muscular arms. Grumble wears very heavy goblin armor as well as dual wielding a ebon axe and mace, One is used for tenderizing the other for cutting both have crushed skulls and carry simple flame enchantments. Though Grumble is a Goblin he is very loyal to Grunt who saved him once long ago from a pair of very hungry bears. Grumble never leaves the Tribes home base unless they are moving elsewhere. Grumble will fight and should be approached with extreme caution.


((its a work in progress!! lol but seriously what ya think?))

facebook chat??

also i did not see what you said about the cooks and stuff but i believe that they should not be aloud to raid and attack but can defend better than the average goblin as they are stronger and more important and most likely older too so larger

Actually... I thought of a better idea. Since the goblins don't have Hard&Fast Statistics, and this game will be more than just a single tactical battle... How about we just submit our tribe ideas, and how they vary from the Warlord, Shaman, 3xBerzerker, 8 Skirmisher, 13x Gobliner "basic tribe", keeping relative power levels in mind. I'm finding application of the Fibonacci sequence to create a (not so) surprisingly (when you remember where the Fibonanni sequence came from) natural reference for tribal creation.

Realizing I just set up the Goblin Numbers to correspond with the Fibonacci sequence (Omitting the 3rd and 5th numbers from the sequence, 2 and 5) I'm going to also use that to calculate the following for our "Natural" tribe:
1 of the 3 Berzerkers is 5/3rds the strength of the other 2, due to superior gear.
3 of the 8 Skirmishers are 13/8ths the strength of the other 5 due to superior gear
5 of the 13 Common Goblins are 21/13ths stronger than the rest, due to superior weaponry.

I noticed in doing so, I increased Standard Tribe Size from 25 to 26. But that's not really an absurd number.

I realized my theoretical tribe still meshes with a slightly different sequence, consisting of:
1 Double-Strength Leader
2 Berzerkers
4 Skirmishers
6 Goblins
(total = 13)

All of my warriors are 4/3rds the strength of their Standard counterparts, giving them a bit more uniformity in their ranks.

Those interested in the game should be able to tweak the numbers as they see fit. A quick and dirty conversion reference: 1 Warlord ~ 3 Berzerkers ~ 8 Skirmishers ~ 21 Goblins.

Scow based on what i wrote can you come up with the amount of each type of goblins for me?? im a little computer challenged i would rely appreciate it man

...Looks like I'll have to come up with a point system based on the above, so my "Natural" distribution of Above-Average talent is quantifiable instead of "Random"

A "Superior Equipment" Goblin is worth roughly 1.5 times as many points as the standard, to save on having to go into truly ridiculous point-inflation by converting fractions to whole numbers.

A Goblin is worth 12 points.
The total Goblin value is 186

Skirmishers are worth 38 pts.
Total Skirmisher value is 360 pts

Berserkers are worth 102 pts.
Total Berzerker Value is 357

You get ~ 930 pts to spend on Troops to get a "Standard" tribe.

based on the percentages i wrote before what am i looking at for a tribe? and i think we should all be allowed a 2nd in command like i have Chef Grumble

and what about rat farmers and cooks ?