Objectively speaking, she didn't deserve to die.

She is a horrible, abusive woman who deserves to get slapped in the face and thrown out of the Orphanage, but that doesn't mean she should be killed. Many people in the town knows her true identity and they mockingly call her 'the kind' as a running joke.

From her and other children's dialogues, we can derive that while she locks children up in a small den and regularly beats them with belts when they do not comply, she does not use the shackle attached on the wall of the den or sixually abuse them.

Even in today's world, saying that she deserves to die, would put a death mark on millions of people. And consider this: Skyrim is much more cruel world with numerous atrocities than the world we live in. As far as I know, Aventus could have murdered an innocent street beggar or another orphan child to enact the black sacrament. That's what I initially thought when I saw human flesh meat lying about the floor. I expected an option to kill Aventus who, in a rage towards Grelod, overstepped and murdered another person, but for an obvious reason that goes along with invulnerable children, I was forced to kill Grelod with Aventus getting absolutely no consequences for his actions.

I was a little startled by this. It's times of war, and in reality there will be hundreds of new orphans each day. I'm not saying she is spiteful because she is overburdened by her duties of taking care of orphans or anything; it's her nature. Nonetheless, if she, who takes in children(who otherwise would starve to death and get abused even more horribly on streets) and raises funds to feed them, deserves to die for abusing orphans, probably one third of the citizens of Skyrim deserve to die as well.

You wouldn't believe me because you must have encounter many nice NPCs in Skyrim. Take a look at modern day Somalia. War is horrible. Civil war is worse. It wouldn't take a genius to guess that the real condition of living in cities during a civil war is probably a lot worse than how it's depicted in the game. Orphans would probably get stabbed and get striped of clothes by looters if they wander around at night.

I am disappointed that Betheda didn't give an option to bribe city authorities to falsely accuse Grelod of some other crimes, since her abusive behavior doesn't seem to bother guards, then replace her as the head of the orphanage with Constance. Why should I kill her when other citizens don't think she deserves to die?

My character was not even an assassin when I got the quest. I should not have been obliged to kill her in order to complete the quest. I could have stolen another Dark Brotherhood's target instead of doing the bidding of this murderous child.

I agree on all points. No matter which branch you take, destroy or join the DB you have to do this despicable deed. It is atrocious IMO.

Another quest badly handled IMO. I'm all for choices and consequences, but I don't see much of a choice here. If you want to destroy the DB, you have to kill Grelod, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Might be something to your idea. If she allowed adoptions. She won't. She's keeping her victims handy. After warning them there will be more beatings, she flat out tells the kids they are there and will stay there until they are old enough to get kicked out into the world. And after she tells them that, they have to thank her.

I don't have much of an issue with killing Grelod. And I've only played through the DB once.

And you are making an assumption that other npcs know about what she does. I don't think they do. After you kill her you get random dialogue about the nice old woman who ran the orphanage.

Sometimes I make that other abused kid in Rorikstead an orphan too, just to adopt her.

Technically speaking, the bandits we kill wholesale don't deserve to die either. We don't know their stories - what drove them to a life of violence and murder. Heck, in the bandit camp just outside of Falkreath, we learn that the leader is sending her share of the loot off to support her ailing father (Who disapproves, but she does it anyway).

No one "deserves to die". It's a shame modern RPG design doesn't include a Non-Violent option like many earlier RPGs allowed for (For the most part. Fallout 2 you can't skip the final fight, no matter what).

But as for Grelod the Kind...I didn't just kill her. I cast Soul Trap on her, thus informing her she was under attack and thus instilled fear into her. I hit her upside the head with the Mace of Molag Bal - the Lord of Torments, killing her instantly but inflicting who knows what kind of pain upon her body. Because of Soul Trap, her soul was not delivered to Bal, but instead svcked into the waiting Black Soul Gem.

I then used the Soul Gem to fashion a simple magical item - a Ring of Healing, named "The Eternal Penance of Grelod the Kind". I then left it sitting on the Altar at the Temple of Mara. From now until the end of time, Grelod's life energies will be used to heal the sick and the injured, in stark contrast to her behavior in life.

I'd sooner place moral judgement on a strain of bacteria, then on Grelod.

You dismiss sixual abuse against the children and shackling them to the walls (I assume she both shackles them and then locks the door) without any evidence to suggest that she doesn't, yet you suggest that the boy murdered somebody for the Black Sacrament, again, without evidence.

Consider this: Why would a boy who wanted an old woman dead kill a totally different person than he wanted killed, to perform the ceremony he performed to summon an assassin to kill the woman he wanted killed, rather than cutting out the middle man and just killing the old woman himself? The boy doesn't seem to be sociopathic, out to kill anyone and everyone just for fun. He has a specific target in mind. If he had the stomach to kill someone to get what he wanted, he'd probably just go after her himself.

My personal theory was that the body you see (at least the skeleton), was that of his own mother. The flesh and heart could have easily been acquired as well, considering it seems to take a while for the dead to be buried in Windhelm due to the extreme cold, and the Butcher cutting people up, meaning it's just a quick jaunt to the Hall of the Dead to get the supplies needed for the ceremony.

Also, I highly doubt she raises funds to care for the children. More likely, she uses the children to raise funds to care for herself. The children seem like little more than tools to her, which is why daily beatings are the norm (with the promise of extra beatings lately). She cares nothing for them, but does not let them leave because her form of recreational activity would be lost without them, as well as the source of her income. If the children of Honorhall are all adopted, there's no need for to give her money, is there?

Also, the atrocities of war don't excuse the atrocities Grelod commits. They mask them, and make people divert attention away from them, but they do not excuse them.

Agreed. You should have been able to go to the PO as soon as getting a contract put on your head if you aimed to destroy the DB.

What Rel said. If Aventus is capable of killing someone to summon DB, he'd have just killed Grelod directly

Anybody who denies innocent orphans their biggest wish of being adopted from coming true deserves to die.

Runa & Aventus are murderers in the making; a happy home & loving family might be the only thing that can save them.

Which is why she is still alive. At least on my current character

Why kill her if you think she doesn't deserve to die. Unless your character wants to kill her, or does think she deserves to die. Of course I'm roleplaying here, if you weren't roleplaying then why does it matter at all.

I guess there could be an option to confront her but not kill her though.

It's morally questionable either way.

On one hand she is evil in her treatment of the children, but is it evil enough to die?

And what kind of evil is there in letting her stay in control of their lives? There is no way of knowing what her total evil deeds are towards them, some kids could be sitting in the bottom of the canol dead.. or sold to necromancers as parts when they get too old for all we really know.

But based on her chat with the kids, I always kill the crone. Figuring it's the only way to really help the kids

Well (if) you could buy the orphanage she wouldn't have to die you could just fire her.

The point is you are doing it to get the Dark Brotherhoods attention...so a character that has the intent of getting the Dark Brotherhoods attention to join them,would have no problem killing her.

If your roleplaying...there are various ways to deal with this quest...

Many quests in Skyrim unfortunately lack any real options, and are painfully linear. It's either do X or never complete the quest. Y and Z are never offered.

I made http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1471280-what-was-your-most-frustrating-moment-in-skyrim/?view=findpost&p=22954153 just a few minutes ago.

Maybe she didn't deserve to die. But that is not important. The hoboes, the orc bard, the orc chef, the cats, etc. Many of them didn't really deserve to die. You kill them because you're an assassin. And it's all the will of Sithis... Hail Sithis!

All I did was throw a piece of cheese at her. It's not my fault.

Totally this^^^ .

If you want to be an assassin, you kill people, you don't agonize over whether the mark deserves to die.

Don't play innocent. You knew damn well she was lactose intolerant!