Issues ? :/
I might have skipped a few pages but did he ever say the game was dumbed down to the console market?
I hate it when PC elites say that kinda crap, I reallyyyyy do but I mean your maken it sound like a Video Game was/is your life,alot of people have spent hours on it no matter what they say or have said about it in a negative way but no need to get so emotional about it like it is your unborn child....

I do not understand it.

You love it so blindly that you can not think that the formula can get even better, you might that if a system on that formula was objected by a majority of the forum goers, is at its best form and all those forum goers are mistaken in their estimation and feeling?

We do not ask them to make Morrowind 2.

We ask them to think about the flawed parts of Oblivion, and see if it did not a rethinking of the decision made for that part.

Then don't spam. If you read the forum rules, pointless posts are spam, and you will get a warning and posting ability suspension for doing it.

If you didn't read the opening post, and aren't contributing to the discussion, then you're spamming.

The op didn't. SteveJ mentioned it in his post. It isn't one of the points the op was discussing.

I think the problem with Oblivion was
A) Announced waaay to early
B ) They had no clue what the systems were going to be(in terms of capability). The programmers were guessing at each and every turn
C)False Advertising. By Some of the released screen shots were to hype the game. Miraculously some of them never made it in the game. If anyone bothers to watch the making of DVD they actually say in one of their meetings that they had a LOT of stuff that they wanted in the game but couldn't fit in.
D)Let's face is...Gamebyro is complete crap, and although amazing for morrowind aged HORRIBLY over the many years. Though at the time, I believe it was on of the few engines could do the job.
E)Fall Out 3 was a much better open world game and improved upon in nearly every aspect. It doesn't matter weather your a fantasy person(like my self) or a sci-fi person(again like my self). Fall Out 3 was just vastly superior except for maybe the PS3 version(not bashin, I love the PS3).

When one looks at the Criticism of oblivion, much of that was translated into Fall Out 3 for the better which, by any reasonable person can clearly see. Even though it was a waste land, the environments were well varied, and the DLC did a lot to add some jazz. The combat, was much improved. Character Dialog was improved, and finally yes. Animation was MUCH improved. It was a pretty major step up from Oblivion.

So, my point is this...I believe that Bethesda Studios knows what went wrong and is actively reading these forums. They make the games they love to play.

to everyone complaining about how no one complains about morrowind, i dont think you realise that there is no point in complaining about a game that was released almost a decade before skyrim, and that it too had its fair share of complaints when oblivion was announced.
i think oblivion has more complaints that morrowind because when morrowind was released, the general audience wasnt expecting much, but oblivion was extremely anticipated.

im also sick of the forum mods on these forums locking every thread that has a harsh view or opinion on oblivion. i should have to (bleepin) candy coat all my negative opinions, especially when they need to be and can be improved upon in this game.
/end rant

also, if gamesas staff actively read the forums, why do they never give us any reassurance, or even a simple acknowledgement that our concerns are being dealt with?

Good post which i agree with, except the bit about gamebryo being crap, i kinda like it
I think the people that were not involved in the pre release hype of Oblivion tend to be the ones that enjoy it more. This is probably Bethesda's fault as based on the video's iv'e seen they did falsely advertsise it with the radiant AI etc. So people's expectations would have been in the sky at the time.

Anyway everyone makes mistakes, even big companies and Fallout 3 was a huge success outselling Oblivion by a significant amount. I have faith that Skyrim will be one of the biggest and best games "this gen".

Since in another thread I've just vowed in the spirit of the holiday to not say something bad about Morrowind, I can't address some of your arguments, however I can address the subject of the other points.

You may not have intended to compare, but I think it's the subtle ques that hit people, for example your title, or what you say in your first paragraph: "If The Elder Scrolls makes it to TES VI, as we all hope it will, if the developers actually read feedback maybe they can gather up the effort to make another game as good as Daggerfall and Morrowind (Arena's good for it's time, but it didn't age well).". It's not grievances with past TES games, it's specifically OB, this might be because it's the latest addition which is understandable, but as you know, people here are used to MO/OB so they immediately go on the defense. A lot of people who usually on the attack in MO/OB arguments are also attracted to threads where OB is being critiqued, to see if they can get a stab or kick in while it's lying down, so people aren't necessarily defensive of you, but because they know what's coming.

I like your suggestion with for the weapon power attacks, I think the idea of power attacks were a great addition, although I wished they were a little more reliable as a tactic, so maybe the chance should be raised a little. I don't understand why a hammer can paralyze either, or a dagger sending a character flying back, those are valid arguments. A dagger/sword in regards to paralyze though, I can see what they were going for, the whole acupuncture thing where you trigger nerves which ends up paralyzing.



The invincible NPC's didn't bother me as much, although I can see the point about it being unimmersive, and as I've said in a thread specifically about that, making them either unkillable to other NPC's or making them killable to everybody but well guarded, could be another solution. The problem with it in morrowind was that you didn't know who you could kill without destroying something.



As long as it's optional, no one can legitimately complain. I actually want them to in addition to the difficulty slider, also have a regular difficulty setting, so that the difficulty slider manages enemy difficulty, while the difficulty setting manages feature availability, like starting out with a map/compass or having to buy each, as well as fast travel.



Totally agree, advantage/disadvantage needs to return, it was such a good tool to make your characters unique.

Likely because a lot of posters have heard this over and over and over and over and over for about five years now?

I have to disagree with magic. It's still horribly overpowered, if you know what to do. A magic-based character will have an easier time than a combat character at higher levels.

especially against goblins...uuugh at lvl 42 my char should have no problem with those deformed creeps

not true. i followed these forums for about a year before i joined up. i was around for all the hype. watched every preview bought every mag that anything relating to OB. and was super excited about the game. even when we all got let down with the things that had to be dropped. i still enjoyed the hell out of it and its my fav game of all time. morrowind was my fav before. skyrim will be my fav next. for me most things were great in MW. the combat however made me not want to play it. i had to literally cheat my combat skills to enjoy the rest of the game. i know that in an rpg everything depends on the characters skills. but i want control. full control. of my skills.
now the magic/enchanting/leveling systems in OB were a step or 3 backwards for sure. they were much better in MW. even the dungeons were a bit better in MW. they just had more variety. i remember the first i stumbled into a deadric shrine and took the offerings from the alter. and wham this nasty devlish looking demon man appeared outa nowhere and whooped my ass. MW definatly had more WOH's and first time feelings too it.

i appreciated the humorous things the npc's said and did in OB. it was a welcome change to all the hard ass [censored] in MW.

i definatly liked how they improved the stealth from MW to OB...much much better. but there is still tons of room for improvement. OB definalty lacked in the items department. ALL ITEMS. almost none felt special.

I too, think the OP has some good points. Oblivion does have flaws, some fairly major, and I think it is valid to point them out when discussing what we don't want to see in Skyrim.

I think the magic system has gotten progressively worse since Daggerfall, in that it has gotten more restrictive, and more difficult to use. I suppose it has gotten more balanced, but in single player, is that really important? I'd like to see the spell creation system go back to being more free-form, as it was more fun then. Also, I's like to see spell failure return, so that you can try to cast any spell, just in the off change you might be able to get it to work. I hope the magic system has been revamped again.

I agree

and I KNOW that the people at Bethesda KNOW that these were horrid mistakes that shall never occur again.

if they need another year to make the game 100 times better then by all means they can release in 12.12.12

So? Making crazy powerful spells was part of the fun of Morrowind. If someone wants to cheat the system, let them. In every iteration of TES, someone is going to find an easier way to complete the game than everyone else; there's no stopping that. Neutering the magic system in the hopes of preventing that just makes a [censored] magic system that's not fun to use anymore. I like the crazy spells that people can make. I like the crazy enchantments that people can make. I don't like when everything turns into more of the same and it takes 15 minutes to kill something from on top of a rock. I understand the need for challenge and balance, but it seems like everyone's pushing for perfect balance, which is incredibly boring and unneeded in a single player-only game.

Let's all not underscore all the fun that we had with Oblivion, sure it wasn't like Morrowind. Then again, no two Elder Scrolls are alike. I'm sure everyone that's complaining all had tons of fun with Oblivion.

I had more fun with Oblivion actually. I played Morrowind first too. Oblivion had its flaws though. But so did Morrowind.

My only hope is that Skyrim doesn't turn into 'Reign of Fire'.

While as an individual I prefer Morrowind over Oblivion, and what I preferred was the depth of lore, the dark atmosphere and the expanded skillset, and the 'everything is grey, not black and white' like in OB and FO3. The reason I like F:NV so much is because it has a much better storyline, and no matter what path you choose theres consequences and its ALL grey.

What a lore 'purists' disliked about Cyrodiil, was that we had been told since Arena {1995} that it was jungle, not roaming forests. We were told that the Nine Divines religion was more like Roman Pantheism, not Roman Catholicism.

There just wasn't any immersion in OB. I liked it for what it was, but I never could develop my character beyond a certain point, Beth has a MASSIVE potential to develop a deep, immersive storyline with Skyrim. The Nords have an incredibly rich history and lore behind them, from Hrothgar and his legendary Five Hundred Companions, to the conquest of Dwemereth, to Ysgramor, to "When you shake the Dragon just so." [sigh] Please don't {bleep] it up Bethesda, MK is right there always willing to lend a hand...please tell me you hired him for this one....

i prefer morrowind to oblivion, but only because i was like 10 when i first played and the atmosphere svcked me in totally and utterly. i still remember my first character - it was an argonian, and i had just passed tarahiel (or what ever he is called; the guy that falls out of the sky) and was going into that rock passage leading to balmora, i had just climbed to the top of one of the hills when i was set upon by a cliferacer! weilding the sword i had just received from tarahiel i spamed mouse clicks and eventually it fell to the ground dead. i looked around and thought "holy sh!t..this is epic!".

with oblivion, it was the only game i had in my PC for over 100 hours of game time, and the combat and physics and AI and scenery and actual talking were refreshing, but after i had finished EVERYTHING i began to crave the immersion and ''wowfacter'' that morrowind had, so i booted up morrowind and installed roughly 200 mods, and though it was fun for a while, i began to notice its short comings - most notably its uninteresting combat.

basically i was left shaking and sobbing in the corner of my room realising that my two favourite games were just two sides of the same coin, but i couldnt really play one without wanting the other :/

Actually, you entitled your thread "Grievances with Oblivion", which boils down to "Complaints about Oblivion". Same thing. You should have worded your title better if you didn't want people to take this thread as another complaint.

actually i would say it more accurately boils down to "the problems with oblivion"
he isnt complaining that it was a terrible game, he is constructively pointing out issues that he feels should be corrected.

Agreed on your major point. With FO3 to a degree and even moreso for FONV, you stepped on someone's toes no matter which path you chose and they weren't happy with you for it. I think 'd very much like to see something along those lines in TESV. Daggerfall tried it, but it didn't come off as well as the devs had hoped. Now that they have a general idea of how to make it work, I'm hoping they'll take that ball and really run with it.

but if you pissed someone off no matter what you did, wouldnt that make you feel like you were accomplishing very little?

Not really. You have to decide who you're going to support and then run with that. To use an OB comparison, make Martin happy/make Mehrunes Dagon unhappy and vice versa. OB's shortcoming in this regard was that you either sided with the good guys or stayed away. Not much room to maneuver (memories of MW players trying to side with Dagoth Ur come to mind). Wtih FONV, I wouldn't go so far as to say that Beth hit the nail on the head, but they got in a really good whack.

Complaining or not, It insulted me.

Sure some of those things should be corrected. But that does not mean that it was not the best damn game in the series.

"Best" is kind of a matter of taste. All of the games were good (I might even go with "great"). Each tried (and succeeded, IMO) to tell an immersive story and presented it in a way that would appeal to a broad audience. Every one of those games disappointed some players and not others. The OP's criticisms were all well-expressed, well-reasoned and have been expressed numerous times in many other threads on other forums, so taking offense now seems a bit odd.