This post was not intended to convert questers into grinders. It was intended for people who like me get tired of questing alone after a few hours, and wish to join a group and go a murderous rampage for a while. Many grinders are losing hope that this game will be good for them, lots of talk about not playing and or canceling orders. I wanted to offer this substantial ray of hope to them. I am a grinder and I will be playing since grinding is not dead. And below I provide some proof.

Just before the end of the beta I ran a few experiments on experience gain to see if grinding was hopeless. Here are my findings and they suggest that solo grinding will be terribly inefficient but group grinding is viable.

My character was level 12. When solo killing a Mob 8 levels below exp was 0. When killing a Mob 4 levels lower exp was apx. 60. When killing a mob 2 levels higher exp was apx 60. Thus we see Exp reward is little influenced by the level of the Mob (if at all) with the exception that too low (and likely too high) offer less or none. Naturally loot scales up with Mob difficulty but the exp appears not to.

Next up was exp sharing. Solo mobs gave 60. Killing a Mob with another player (not grouped) also gave 60. Killing 3 mobs in a tangle of players all blasting them gave 180 (60 each). Thus we see that you lose no experience at all from sharing kills! In fact no matter if I had done 20% or 80% or the damage the reward was consistently the same.

At 60 exp per kill I calculated soling would take a substantial amount of time to level, about 3 times as long as speed questing. However in a group of four (gaining grouping bonus) you could kill the Mobs 200-300% faster than you could solo (depending on MoB density in the area). Since group killing does not impair the exp gained per kill the grinding time will be substantially reduced to level.

Now speed questing could probably still outperform this exp gain, at best grinding would probably approach 70-90% of questing exp gains coupled with exploration from questing. However Dungeon grinding offers vastly better wealth and loot, so it seems a fair trade.

I leveled twice from doing public dungeons (no quests) and elite areas. Plenty of non-quest-related killing to be done.

So... basically, grinding is viable, but only in a group? I enjoy grinding myself sometimes, but not like this. Different level mobs, and even varying difficulty of the same level mobs should give different experience. If all mobs give the same exp, grinding becomes not worth the effort... at least from a solo perspective.

The only problem is, I never found an area with enough mobs with a fast respawn rate that would make this viable. I only got to level 12 so maybe I missed some spot that would be good for this.

I was level 14 3/4 when I had completed all the quests I could (not counting bugged quests) and wanted to be level 15 when I moved into the next zone (I wanted to equip second weapon and train the skills up first). I was able to level up after about 30 minutes of grinding zombies and bloodthorn in Glenumbra. The respawn rate was fast enough that I never had to wait.

I stopped questing after completing all DC quests up to the completion of Glenumbra, and then spent the rest of the time from around level 23 to VR10 grinding public dungeons and instanced dungeons with only questing from 45-50 (Coldharbour/story stuff).

Chests are viable to grind, I found I got the most exp from those if not questing ^^ Could be early level too, viable up to lvl 17 atleast

Edit:

oh yeah idled out one time after looting a chest, then logged back in and spawned on an unlooted chest, guess I came in another phase, so might be able to powerlevel or powerlooting in that way.

Chests, random encounters, world bosses, and even discovering a location are great ways to gain exp!

On my level 12 solo grinding seemed to provide exp at between 25-35% the speed that questing did. Vastly beter loot but terrible exp. Camping bosses was a bit beter when the dungeon was hot, perhaps 50-60% and great loot, but if no one was running through then the boss doesn't spawn and it goes to crap.

Dungeons seem to have good density. To be efficiant there your really need a group however as they are tougher and thus will slow you down if you do it solo. The group exp bonus is nice but even more important is those Mobs going down fast. I couldn't move past the door beyond the First Boss in Fungal Grotto (it was bugged) and thus have no numbers for Group Dungeons yet. I can say that the fun factor in there was very high and the loot was awesome compared to elsewhere, so if it is even 50% of the exp from questing I will be spending a lot of time in the group dungeons. After release I will actually time the rates at certain levels and post the results. I wish I had thought of doing that this beta but I was too busy re rolling character and trying everything out.

I'm not into grinding but I'll just mention this:

killing mobs 4-5 levels above you appears to give more experience (level 12 killing level 16-17) . I didn't check the actual numbers but it seemed that way.

You clearly saw much more content than I could cover in the Weekend. If you don’t mind could you share some advice on what method you were using to grind most efficiently? Was it Boss camping, or group tearing through over and over again for example? Or something else I have not thought of yet.

It could be true. What I know for certain is that the exp gain is not fixed based on the Mob itself. For example a level 4 wolf and a level 6 bear gave me the exact same exp. There may be a level range where you get a bonus for higher mobs/ and penalty for low mobs but it definitely is not a flat amount per level (which is very different from most MMO's). I am also confident that named Mobs offer more exp from my observations during Boss grinding but I do not have numbers to back that up ATM.

You were lucky to do it before the last 2 nerfs to mob XP.

Going from VR2 to VR3 would take forever to do by just grinding. 971k VR points needed and each mob only gives 106 points. That's over 9000 mobs just to level from 2 to 3.

Killing level 20+ mobs gave me about 200 exp per kill in the recent beta. But it does seem to depend on other things, too. I'm not sure what the exp formula is, but when my level 5 Bosmer killed level 12 mobs, I got well over 100 exp as well.

Just 9000? That's nothing.

Its going to be hard to get a consistent number based on the weekend beta. The XP has been adjusted at low levels to compensate for skipping the starter islands. The lower level mobs are giving more XP than they have in the past and could be skewing some of the tests.

the problem is that mobs spawn at same locations and yes another problem is there are not enough mobs in areas for efficient grinding, again another problem is finding groups for grinding and its all because ppl are too busy with quests

please vote http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1495460-would-you-prefer-grinding-mobs/ and hope they will change that

Grinding is certainly not the most effective way to level but the side affect of it is you obtain quite a lot of loot over time. XP does go up noticeably however IF you only kills mobs higher level than you. I was testing skill binding and rotation at level 15 when my second weapon opened up and was grinding out level 19-21 mobs in the next zone. They were easy very easy to kill and I could take on up to 3 without much worry (they kill you fast if you screw up though as a mostly light armored nigthblade caster).

It seem if you want to grind mobs you must kill mobs up to 5 levels higher than you. The GREAT news is that this game allows this. Some mmos have such a hellish power curve that mobs 3 levels above you destroy you. Thankfully ESO's power curve isn't like that. I vastly prefer games with limited power curves. It opens up where you can go hunt. In ESO you can skip entire zones to move ahead and take on tougher content.

I speak only of low level content though. The game is obviously engineered for story based progression. I suggested in feedback from the first beta I tested that ZOS should consider adding areas in game that is grind friendly. I imagine this will only exist in dungeons or adventure zones though away from where story is the primary focus.

its not about the lvl of the mob , as long as its not too low to give exp. Its about the "rank" I guess? Elite mobs give more exp. Best example I have is the troll on north western edge of Auridon (just north of banished cells on the peninsula). Which gave me consistently 160 xp each time i killed it. (I was lvl 10-13)

I would vote, but it seems that ZOS has something against mob grinding. Every patch since I've been involved has taken the game further and further away from being able to grind. Dungeons used to be great places to level, many areas had tons of mobs that constantly respawned and gave good xp. The mob XP has been lowered with each patch and quest XP has been increased.

Can anyone tell me what is fun or good about grinding? In detail if possible because I just don't understand what others find in a positive way in grinding. I find it boring because I feel like I have to repeat over and over. (Serious answers only please)

Some people love questing, and never tire of collecting 10 apples and delivering them to Jane Smith in Sunnydale. But some of us find that tedious. Likewise some people find grinding bosses to be endless fun, and others find that tedious. Grinding is not fun for everyone, but neither are repetitive quests fun for everyone. It is a to each his own kind of thing.

The fundamental problem I have is questing is not very conducive to grouping. Everyone is at a different point in the story, and when you do find someone “on the same page” as you as soon as you finish the quest (which is usually quite fast) they are off to do the next one which you may not have or have already finished. It seems pointless to spend 5-10 min to find someone to do a quest which will take you 3 min to complete and then go your separate ways. Thus questing can crush the social aspect of the game which is what many of us bought it for (also why pay $15 a month to play solo).

Mind you I am not at all advocating that they diminish questing in any way. I think there are lots of people who already have friends in the game to quest with and enjoy the social experience. People who will stay around the same level a progress together. These people should indeed be able to enjoy the stories and save the local villages, and receive good rewards for doing so.

I feel however that a great many of us do not fall into that category. We don’t have pre-established friends in game to quest with or simply do not like the boring filler quests. For us getting together and meeting new people to take down tough dungeons is where the fun is. And it is how we can meet people and enjoy the social aspect of the game. I feel this large group should have a viable method of progression as well. Currently many players feel delivering apples is the only way to get to VR10 before they die of old age, and if they don’t like delivering apples then they are compelled to find a different game. I think that it would be a mistake to ignore this very large group of players. No earth shattering changes need be made, just enough to make it a viable option.

Grinding to me is the best opportunity to do the things that I play an MMO for in the first place.

1. I like to fight. That is why I play. I would rather spend most of my time playing my character. Using the skills and items that I have gained through playing instead of running errands for some snobby high elf that just [censored]es about it taking to long, to get back with his, three rag weeds and a milk.

2. I like to make friends and group with people. Not the sort of friends that get added to a friends list after a particularly good dungeon run who you can't remember who the hell they were three days later. I am talking about friends that you will log in at a certain time to meet up with in order to party together. Friends that I still have contact with 10 years after I stopped playing a game. The best way to do that is to spend time with them. the best way to do that is to stay grouped longer than 10 min to run one silly fetch quest.

3. I want to know who I am guilded with from personal experience. I don't want to read an application that list all your made up gaming achievements. I want to invite you because I know your cool, since I have spent hours of time playing with you, and I know you can play good.

ALERT: wall of text...

TL;DR: Killing mobs is an option just like quests. It's not a grinding vs. questing question. It's all about OPTIONS.

While I do like ESO, quests here feel like FedEx Online - go here, go there, run across the map like a lunatic. For me that's boring. Too little action. That's why completing a quest for me takes 3-4 times what it should since I tend to wipe every trace of mobs on my way between 2 quest NPCs. It's to alleviate the pain

Before I answer some questions, some background for me: I've been playing Anarchy Online for close to 10 years now. One of the fun aspects in that game is the freedom to equip items (armor, weapons etc) much higher than you provided you meet the equip requirements (e.g. abilities for armor or weapon skills for weapons). This is called twinking - trying to ladder skills / abilities to equip higher and higher gear then your level.

With the right in-game resources (currency or items), you can push twinking to the extreme and this actually became a meta-game in Anarchy Online. Just seeing how high you can go.

Once you are done twinking, you can either go kill other players or mobs. I'm not much of a PVPer, so more PVE for me. It's something almost heartwarming to be able to kill mobs 3-4 times your level due to the gear you managed to equip. You go test it and see how it performs. Unsatisfied with the results, start all over again with the twinking.

So yes, I like spanking mobs.

I like trying various approaches to killing mobs that can be neigh impossible to kill.

I like to push the damage and see how high it can go.

Tweak the equipment... tweak skills. If it underperforms, reset everything and try something else.

And then, outside doing this solo... it can get a lot more fun doing it in a group. Not all groups are great... but once in a while, you get that group where there is this synergy between all team mates. In these groups, you simply buldoze your way through swaths of mobs much higher than you. All in all it's about having a fun ride.

I think this is close to what PVPers feel when going against each other. Adrenaline rush. Experiencing either killing very dangerous mobs or other players provides that bit of adrenaline rush. Miss a dodge, activating a skill or a timely block and you're dead. I think I spent most of the money I gained on repairs for dying to mobs much higher than me because I kept trying various tactics trying to defeat said mobs.

I like doing the ocasional quest... for me, the problem with quests is that they're:

- pretty much tailored to lead you through the content - somebody else's vision on how to play the game

- not really challenging unless you go for the harder quests above your level

- not providing that excitement where you wander aimlessly sight seing and get in the middle of some nasty mobs - fight them off or return from the wayshrine to make them pay for killing you

- not giving you that sense of accomplisment when you kill some mob that whacked your behind a few times and get a very very nice reward

NOTA BENE: I am not saying that killing mobs is how should everybody play - everybody has their own playstyle. I like doing the occasional quest. It's all about OPTIONS. I would hate it if ZSO would take leveling OPTIONS away and I feel this is what they're trying to do with the past XP nerfs from killing mobs.

I started grinding at 21 in the weekend beta's solely in cyrodiil and last weekend i hit VR1 (which means lvl 50) I totally agree with you and i wont be questing pretty much after i hit 15 and of course i will do the main story line. The xp is faster and the loot drops are 100 times better than any quest rewards i found and cash is so much easier to attain this way, we were filling our bags up with in 45 minutes to an hour and thats with maxed bags and 1 from the pony. I also found that xp per mob was dependant on your lvl. I was leveling faster and getting more xp at 49 then people in the 20's in my group, i would get 400 - 500 a kill they were getting 120 a kill, so that suggests to me that the xp scales to your lvl. But i also noticed that from 49 to vr1 its 143k xp and from vr1 to vr2 its 436k so i am guessing that is the bottleneck to the leveling, 50 below it goes by fast but 50+ it slows down a heck of a lot and also you are only able to get xp in the VR areas and from pvp.

Actual quests is the best part. Griding ought to be dead.

/flameon

Edit: If you want mindless killing, that's why you've got Cyrodiil.