What HL2 had that Psi-Ops didn't, was a huge fanbase and a lot of hype. HL2 was their first game experience with good physics, but not the first game with good physics.

If Psi-Ops had sold very well, it wouldn't be forgotten like it is. Not everything in life is fair. I mean, people still credit things to Edison when Tesla and others were the real masterminds behind the stuff, over a century ago. Sometimes [censored] happens

Indeed. But that doesn't mean HL2 influenced Dishonored, but rather that both HL2 and Dishonored were influenced by Viktor Antonov.

But yeah, I think HL2 was a lot less groundbreaking than you do, infact, I thought it was a big disappointment and a noticeable step down from HL1 in several regards

It really doesn't matter who did something first, but who did it best - it's more the fact that HL2 managed to combine so many then-revolutionary elements that subsequently became the bar for the FPS genre: collision physics, material properties, HDR, highly detailed textures featuring subsurface scattering, normal and specular mapping, reactive AI (how many games still have enemies that only ever run and gun forward?), new particle systems and effects, large open-terrain maps (or at least the illusion of such, while the comparative Doom 3 engine could barely manage a bit of sky), characters that could actually act (Dr. Kleiner and Lamar still stick in the mind) and overall just being a damn fine adventure with really good pacing, art style, gunplay, feedback responsiveness, and an actual plot (B-movie or otherwise.) But of course, it's "just hype" because some game did this or that first, right? You don't have to like it, as many probably didn't like Psi-Ops (or even hear of it), but objectively you can't seriously ignore that HL2 was a very well made game and dismiss everyone else as mindless fans who just buy any kind of crap because it's by Valve.

On the topic of Half Life I think you can safely say that HL1 was the truly revolutionary and influential one while HL2 was just a game where the whole was greater than the sum of its parts. In the end it was still really good, not groundbreaking in any particular way, except for popularization, perhaps.

As for the poll... Heh.

HL2 didn't have HDR for quite some time, it was patched in later. And talking about the sky, the unpatched sky in HL2 was quite weak too as the clouds were still and nothing moved. And I actually thought the AI was weaker than in HL1, which granted was very impressive back then.

And it's not really a damn fine adventure with really good pacing either. All the physic puzzles and driving interfered with the pacing. The physis puzzles weren't even good, just a gimmick to show of the physics and slow down the player to make the game seem longer than it is.

So as far as I'm concerned, they didn't do things the best, well, except for the facial animations.

I don't dismiss those who enjoyed HL2 as mindless Valve fans, never said such a thing, but I sure don't agree with their opinion. There been several games from Valve that I enjoyed greatly, but HL2 isn't one of them.

There are few games I have played that have been as forward-thinking and polished as HL2. Regardless, you are entitled to your opinion, naturally.

That's not calling anyone mindless. Or do you disagree that there was a huge HL fanbase thanks to both HL1 and Counter Strike that looked forward to HL2 greatly before it's release and getting a ton of previews from the announcement in E3 2003 to it's release in late 2004?

I'm saying that's not the only difference between HL2 and Psi-Ops. Personal tastes aside, I think a little credit is due, objectively speaking.

And there goes all legitimacy in your argument. If you fail to realize that people have their opinions, and that yours isn't fact, then I can't take you seriously. In my opinion, Half Life was revolutionary, and Half Life 2 really raised the bar. There's no shooter games as well done, IMO. And it clearly did influence other developers. Therefore, it is revolutionary as it brought on changes in the gaming industry, making developers aim higher to compete.

Morrowind didn't really dumb down, it was a lot closer to a complete reboot than a sequel.

You don't have facts, so you can't convince anyone. Your HL2 is ordinary FPS with very weak story, very weak AI, linear levels and gameplay. Nothing new!

And entire HL story actually is very stupid and a cliche - aliens. You start as Gordon Freeman who is theoretical physicist, but somehow you suddenly become Rambo. Very stupid.

Almost everything that you mentioned here can be found in first Far Cry which is an older game. Also FC has much better AI, and way larger maps. This game was something new and revolutionary in 2004, not generic HL2.

... and also generic aliens.

Fail.

Why do I even bother replying, though? You've already made up your mind long ago about both sides of this "discussion" so... I'm done with this thread.

There weren't any aliens in Far Cry...

Far Cry has Trigens which are human and non-human mutants.

And in both games story isn't primary element, but it make more sense in FC.

And yes you should really stop replying me.

In my opinion Far Cry raised the bar with great graphics, huge maps, and very good and challenging AI. It was the first non linear FPS and truly something new in this genre.

HL2 - just one more corridor FPS.

There's room for all of the Big Three* to be revolutionary in their own ways. Farcry brought a lot of cool stuff to video games that I hadn't seen before, but so did Half-Life 2.

*My own terminology. Farcry, Half-Life 2, and DooM3 all came out in 2004 and were all high quality, forward-thinking games, in my opinion.

Whoah, easy there, slugger.

It did though. The Morrowind really devoted fan don't like to admit it though. You realize that all the complaints about Oblivion and Skyrim happened with Morrowind too right? There were a lot of complaints back when Morrowind launched from the Daggerfall fans.

I didn't quote you slugger.

Who gives a [censored]? I don't enjoy Daggerfall as much regardless of how smarted up it is because Morrowind was a completely different game to Daggerfall, just like Oblivion was a completely different game to Morrowind.

Morrowind rebooted the series as a more in-depth world with more of a focus on hand-crafted environments than randomly generated dungeons, and Oblivion rebooted Morrowind as a more action oriented RPG.

I'm not sure why you think Morrowind fans somehow have a conspiracy to enjoy Morrowind out of spite or something. I actually enjoy Morrowind, I'm not just saying I enjoy it more to try and be sophisticated and congratulate myself on how complicated the game I'm playing is.

Who cares? Do you not read the forum? Tons of people complain about Oblivion and Skyrim lol. I can't complain about Morrowind? Please stop being a really devoted fan. It's ok, I promise. Not everyone adores Morrowind. Everyone has a different favorite. Relax.

That's pretty much exactly what I said.

Most of the people complaining about Oblivion and Skyrim being dumbed down are being jerks. Complaining about Morrowind in exactly the same way doesn't somehow make you not a jerk. I don't get why some people get so upset about Morrowind on either side, the game is ten years old.

Being personally insulted and passive-aggressive about people liking or not liking it isn't going to do anyone any good.

All I said was Daggerfall is better and someone else got insulted. The original poster isn't even you.

Using your opinion to make objective statement's is incredibly likely to insult someone.

Go quote the original poster who originally said Morrowind was better. You're either attacking me here, being a really devoted fan, or both.

I can only hope Beth has not looked at GTA.

Adding features instead of removing?

Oh, sometimes I wouldn't put it past them.

On an unrelated note, I've been through Daggerfall fans whining about Morrowind, Morrowind fans whining about Oblivion, Oblivion fans whining about Skyrim, and I'll probably be here for Skyrim fans whining about whatever is next (unless the mods ban my pedantic ass). I have also been through it with many other series, and in many other media. I've laughed at all of them as I enjoyed each game/book/movie/whatnot. If you can enjoy something for what it is rather than what you think it should be, you will rarely be disappointed.

Except for Prometheus. I could not enjoy that for what it was.

What did this have to do with the topic again?