I think they should to a degree, it would be better if they posed a bit of a threat I think. Not so that they are perfectly on par with the player though, I know how that turned out in oblivion....slash slash slash...slash slash...slash slash slash..~killall ..there we go.

edit: spelling

You could've justified it in Oblivion, in the story - Cyrodiil's going to hell in a handbasket, right, as the storyline progresses. So Bethesda could've justified by having tougher guards with better equipment brought in from other provinces. Would've taken a few simple lines in overhearing conversations: "I hear they're bringing in some more troops from Black Marsh to stabilise Cyrodiil," or, talking to a guard, "I got dragged back here from from Morrowind," "We put in an order with the quartermaster for silver and ebony weapons - and we got them. That's how we know things are going bad." Simple.

Doesn't explain why they don't do jack to help you during the game, granted. "No, I'm sorry. I can't help to tackle a cave full of evil wizards hell-bent on opening up a portal for Mehrunes Dagon. I've got to wonder around the townships and converse awkwardly with the citizenry."

The trouble with all forms of scaling is that there's no feeling of progression. At level one, get your [censored] handed to you by a guard. Then, at level 10, you should be able to hand him his. But that never happened, so the whole game felt like you stayed at the same level, you never moved or improved.

Guards should usually be high-level NPCs, but different places should have different levels of guards, so a village should have guards of level 15-20 for instance, but the capital city of an important hold should have guards of level 30-45, and the vault in that city should have guards of level 40-50, and so on...

And guards of different ranks should have different level, so the captains and other higher level individuals should have relatively higher levels than the guards under their command.

But in no way, guards should be level-scaled, so at first they should seem like real mighty foes or guardians, but as we develop our characters, we should feel that we are becoming a force to be reckoned with, and have the satisfaction to sense our progress, as we see that we can defeat them rank after rank.

I.e. When finally the time comes that we can defeat that village guard or the thug that could defeat the village guard, we would still have to avoid those mighty town guards, but after a while even those guards should seem as child-play, and so on...

So we should have all sorts of levels for the guards, but they should never be level scaled, or not that much, so that we could feel the satisfaction of becoming their master as we grow.

There should definitely different ranks for the guards and scaling to an extent. But what i don't want to see is when I'm level 50 all the random regular guards who normal help children across the street replaced by captians and generals.

In the PS magazine, "guards do not have high end equipment like in Oblivion". LOL high end my [censored] theyre stuff was all the same, and if its not even that level in Skyrim, they might as well be naked. jk jk theyre stuff wasnt THAT bad but wasn't "high end".

I don't know what else to say about your issue with having trouble with the guards then. On the highest difficulty setting, the guards (even when in groups) weren't difficult to kill at all once my character was at higher levels such as 18 and up and had some decent gear.

I'd have them scale, but within a level range. Something like ... five levels higher than the player with a minimum level of 10 and a maximum level of 35. That way they would be scary when you are young, but eventually you would wipe the floor with 'em.

Gaurds should be hard, but why on earth do they decide to better themselves only when you suddenly exist?!
This is why level scaling doesn't make sense to me (not how we've seen it) The world and all of its inhabitants suddenly decide to get stronger simply because I exist. Gaurd skill level would be higher than most, they train pretty hard I'd guess, but its still mostly static, from troop to troop over time they achieve a certian mastery and maintain it, they don't suddenly decide they need to be gods because some guy walked into town.

Maybe they aren't actually getting better, but when you wipe out one group of guards the local ruler says to himself, "Hmm... maybe we should stop being such cheapskates and hire some better quality fighters."

Yeah you could have justified it, but it was never implemented. Enemies were bullet sponges. Or arrow sponges. Or spell sponges. You get the idea. Guards were not tougher, because all enemies were tough. It would have been quite fun to see different ranks of guards (like, for example, cops in the Need for Speed games), where when you are a really weak character it's hard to beat up the weakest guards, and when you are a really strong character it's easy to beat them up but they are quickly replaced by tougher and tougher guards.

I would think the guards should be as strong as they should feasibly be.

That is, for instance, the grunts who stand around at the city gates should be a bit stronger than the average citizen, and that's about the extent of it. They're like mall security guards. The ones who are stationed outside should be a bit tougher - they have to hold their own against whatever might approach. The castle guards should be stronger yet - they're the cream of the crop. And the count/prince/whatever's personal guards should be frighteningly ruthless and efficient. And there should also be officers and such who are notably more powerful than the run of the mill, plus a few here and there who are just more powerful anyway, just for a bit of variety.

However that all matches up with the overall leveling of the game, that's where they should be, from beginning to end.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that in Oblivion they were sending soldiers out of the province because things were going a whole lot worse in some of the other parts of Tamriel. Remember how Ocato doesn't offer you any Legion Soldiers to assist with the Battle for Bruma.

Level 1 - 5: PC can kill about 4 without having to retreat
Level 6 - 10: PC can kill about 8 without having to retreat
Level 11 - 15: PC can kill about 12 without having to retreat
etc.

Repeat, Multiply, Whatever...
(Judging by Oblivion standards)

Yep, because in making them as tough as can be, it can add more excitement (or consequences) for players who want to go and start trouble around towns.

Guards in Oblivion was weak because their low level equipment, steel or chain armor and steel or silver swords. Worse the city guards used light armor while their primary skill was heavy.

Issue was not HP, or skill they was actualy 10 levels over you.
At level 30 almost all the guards dies in the battle for bruma. However I gave the guards some healing potions and daeric equipment and everybody survived.

Guards should always be a challenge, they are there for a reason, not just another NPC walking about, it's there to keep the players from doing bad things in public :wink_smile:

I disagree. We should be kept from doing bad things by negative consequences, not being smacked upside the head by guards who are arbitrarily stronger than they have any right to be. I should be discouraged from stealing from a store, by every merchant in the town refusing to do business with me, and possibly passing the word along if I keep on doing it. If I get the reputation of a murderer, I should be discouraged by having bounties put up on me, with adventurers, members of upstanding guilds, and mercenaries out to get me.

They were always ten levels above you...

So just how weak do you want them to be? Should we survive 1 vs 1? definitely. 2 vs 1? Only if we landed the first blow. 3 vs 1? I don't think we should be able to kill three guards just like that.

They should not be pushovers, clearly since they are there to defend the city. However, they are still just ordinary people like anyone else, I am not talking about at the beginning, I am speaking of end-game.. No amount of discipline, training, or ability would allow them to match someone who routinely fights and kills dragons, and can freely wield their power. Standard "guard" characters, no name individuals should not reach the same potential we do. Knights, captains...people with real field experience and ability, "hero guards" so to speak should be very close but still beatable. We should not fear guard1, guard2, etc....but Knight Captain x and his elite guard? I heard of that guy and they are scary. That sort of thing.

Guards beating up players regardless of their level or whatever is an old RPG trope I'd like to see gone. How some fat guard manages to get godlike, wielding amazing gear and stomping high level players into the ground by guarding a gate and dealing with drunk Bosmer all day is beyond me.

I think that guards should be much weaker (in Oblivion one guard would be able to save cyrodill alone) but also much more numerous so that they still pose a threat as a group but a single one shouldn't be so overpowered. Also as said in an earlier post there should be different levels of guards, Oblivion had this to a very limited degree, Imperial Forester-Town Guard-Imperial Guard-Imperial Palace Guard, a huge castle should have more and better guards that a small hovel, which should only have some makeshift militia or something.

You need an "I don't care" option on that poll.... because, honestly, I've never fought a Guard in MW/OB, so I really don't care. :shrug:

Guards? Static level, but have them in great quantities so that high level characters can still go on rampages.

What I would like to see in order to make life as a criminal more interesting however, is cities sending out bounty hunters to track you down if you're a particularly notorious criminal. These could be scaled, since they'd theoretically be elite assassins being sent because they can match your ability.

If the guards are level-scaled, they should have a level range with a cap... like a bottom level of 15 and a top level of 35 for your average guard, and then maybe guards with names, high ranks, or in prominent places could have a static level above 40 somewhere. Neither guards nor anything else should be centered around the player to hinder the player completely without thought to the player's progression. Guards should GUARD the city, not be there solely to detect PC crimes, so they should seem like they have an edge against monsters and bandits from PC level 1 on, but also feel like they are an enemy you have progressed to become better than over time should you choose to be a criminal.