I'd consider it an interface improvement compared to OB, and much more so compared to MW.

Over at the Gamespot forums somebody actually thought that SMI was for SMILING. I just thought that was funny.

In Morrowind every spell you cast was in both hands.

I think it's quite possible that they make MORE skills with less with the perk system. 18 seems small, yea? But if it takes up just one spot on that list...let's call it ARMOR. When you level up your armor skill, you then can pick a perk that allows you to specialize in a certain armor type. As you level you can get better and better of course. Same with the schools of magic. If there is only 1 spot taken for magic...let call it MAGIC...the perk system will take care of the rest.

If you look at it that way, 18 skills doesn't seem so little.

EDIT: Think of it like a tree system..


ARMOR: Unarmored>Light armor>Medium armor> Heavy armor...>possible more types here

This can be done if the perk system is complex enough.

Bold - Confirmed
Italics - Deduced from article

Illusion
Conjuration
Destruction
Restoration
Alteration
Alchemy
Enchanting
Smithing (though smiting dragons and smiling are just as likely)
Marksman
One-Handed
Two-Handed
Sneak
Block

Speechcraft
Unarmoured
Armoured
Hand-to-Hand
Athleticism (combines encumbrance, athletics, and agility)

I don't know about Skyrim but I'm guessing at the rate skills keep going bye bye, the game after Skyrim will have three skills.

1. Killing
2. Speech
3. Sneaking

Tweaked your list as a possibility. The separations are probably wrong.

Warrior|Tank
One handed
Two handed
Shield (since the shield does more than just blocking now)
Unarmed (fist and fist weapon)
Smithing (includes the mining, repair, and forging they talked about in the mag)

Mage|Priest
Destruction
Alteration
Conjuration
Illusion
Restoration

Stealth|Rogue
Ranged (longbow and crossbow)
Sneak
Security
Athletics (merged w/ acrobatics)
Charm (speech and mercantile)

Everyone
Harvesting (includes the farming and cooking thing they talked about in the mag)
Alchemy (poisons play a bigger roll?)
Enchant

If they havent completely reworked the skill system and only taken 3 skills out it would be reasonable to assume that 1 skill from each of the 3 types has been taken out, for magic it has already been confirmed that Mysticism has been removed however for combat I would assume it is either block or athletics and for stealth I would assume mercantile leaving the skill line up as follows.

Combat (Block skill now governed by either Blade or Blunt depending on what weapon you use at the time)

Blades
Blunt
Heavy Armour
Hand to Hand
Armourer
Athletics

Magic (mysticsim spells split up among remaining spell trees)

Illusion
Conjuration
Alchemy
Alteration
Destruction
Restoration

Stealth (Mercantile now merged with speechcraft)

Acrobatics
Light Armour
Security
Sneak
Marksman
Speechcraft

Or

Combat (athletics merged with acrobatics)

Blades
Blunt
Heavy Armour
Hand to Hand
Armourer
Block

Magic (mysticsim spells split up among remaining spell trees)

Illusion
Conjuration
Alchemy
Alteration
Destruction
Restoration

Stealth (Mercantile now merged with speechcraft)

Acrobatics
Light Armour
Security
Sneak
Marksman
Speechcraft

That being said I think it is more than likely that Bethesda has completely reworked the skill system and trying to guess what skills we can expect is futile at this point, while I would love to see spears and halberds make a return I dont fancy their chances.

I don't see the point in guessing the skill list, really. It would be much more productive if Bethesda shed some light on what skills are in what what kind of perks we can expect to see. Makes it much easier to discuss around potential problems that may be beneficial for the devs. 11 months is still a long way to influence things, even if the main design frame is set. Example: Block/Parry and Shield as skills, or specific defense perks for appropriate weapon? There are probably problem areas with any combination, and I think it's wrong to see what they are only when the game ships. That won't be something that is easily changed in a patch. Then again, maybe it's been already discussed to death in the suggestion threads over the years

Can someone give the direct quote where athletics was ruled out?

If you look at the starwheel thingy you see it starst with alchemny and goes to enchanting.. with smi the next offering...

Sooo its a wheel....

Stealth could end with alchemy and start with marskman and combat could start ehcnating or smithing and end with marskman.

As for atributes to skills.. I dont think atributed level up the same way as before and I dont think skills have a direct connection to stats this time. I think stats just effect what perks you can get and some derived statsa nd are based entirely on race birthsign maybe your pick of 1-3 stats to boost at start and perks that might raise your stats... No more everyone ends up the same....

I'd like to see a source on that as well. I'd also be grateful if someone could provide some reasoning behind the idea that Light/Heavy Armor will be merged into one skill, or even removed as skills entirely? I'm not saying I don't like the idea or believe it to be true, but I haven't seen any evidence to support such a radical change. Also, could someone tell me why so many people believe Attributes have been removed? I must have missed that bit of the article... I know Todd didn't mention Attributes, but that certainly doesn't mean they've been removed. Fallout had attributes that were independent of the level up system, maybe TES V will be similar.

Now for my predictions...

Magic
01. Destruction
02. Illusion
03. Conjuration
04. Alteration
05. Restoration
06. Enchant
Comments: I think this list is pretty much established; we know all six will at least be in the game, and I think that Magic is the most obvious place for each of them to go.

Combat
07. One-Handed
08. Two-Handed
09. Armored [or Heavy Armor]
10. Shield
11. Smithing
12. Unarmed (a.k.a. Hand to Hand)
Comments: 1H and 2H replace blade/blunt skills to more effectively utilize the new "two hands, two options" approach to combat. Hopefully this can include polearms and battlestaves as well... Armored is in because I think there has to be at least some skill to determine the effectiveness of wearing armor. (I left Heavy Armor in as an alternate just in case.) Shield, Smithing, and Unarmed all seem like locks to me.

Stealth
13. Marksman
14. Sneak
15. Security
16. Alchemy
17. Speechcraft
18. Athleticism/Unarmored [or Light Armor]
Comments: The first four are almost sure to be in the game. Speechcraft is modified to incorporate bartering as well. The last spot goes to either Athleticism (including Acrobatics/dodging) or Unarmored (or Light Armor if they keep the Light/Heavy system in place — see comments for the Combat section above). Hard to decide which of those is more likely. But I think that's really the only skill I'm unsure about; the rest seem to be more or less locks.


Of course there's always the possibility of a curveball; maybe Bethesda will mix things up even more than any of us have anticipated. But personally I don't see that happening. I think the skill list will be fairly close to what most of us are predicting. What exactly it will include basically comes down to the answers to the following questions:
? Do they keep the Heavy/Light Armor system from Oblivion, or do they consolidate them into a single "Armored" skill — or perhaps even eliminate Armor skills?
? Do they eliminate physical/movement-based skills like Athleticism and Acrobatics, and replace them with perks? Or do they perhaps combine them into a single movement skill?

One handed and two handed seems very silly, I would prefer "long blade" "short blade" "blunt" "axe"

Why would you need both one-handed and shield? Surely this would give dual weilders or marksmen a skill advantage?

@sapperteet: That will almost certainly not happen... They've cut down the skill pool from 21 to 18, so we have to find ways to combine/consolidate/cut Oblivion's list, not add more skills to it. We know Enchanting will make a return, which means we already have to cut an extra skill... There's also the possibility of Unarmored making a return, though I personally don't expect that to be the case. So why One-handed and Two-Handed as opposed to Blade and Blunt? Simply because the entire combat system in Skyrim revolves around a "two hands, two options" system, so it makes more sense to make skills that complement that system.

Plus, it would give a bit more incentive for players to branch out and try other weapons. I don't know about you, but I almost never touched any blunt weapons in Oblivion because there were way more blades out there, and more incentives to use them, so I always chose Blade as my skill. If Skyrim uses the One-Handed and Two-Handed skill approach, the only question players need to consider is, do I want to sacrifice some power in my weapon in order to free up hand space?


@Imbecile: I don't follow... If you dual wield, you sacrifice defense to gain attack. If you use a shield, you sacrifice attack to gain defense. If you always use a shield, your shield skill will constantly be leveling up, adding to your defense rating, absorbing more damage, and increasing the likelihood of stunning enemies with a shield bash. The Shield skill would affect all of these things, and if you choose not to raise it, your defense will suffer greatly...

I would be quite surprised not to see a Block/Shield skill in the game, because it seems like they tried to make shields a bit more dynamic and practical in this game, and there were variants of that skill in both Oblivion and Morrowind.

I always used blunt. Mace FTW. It's just how I roll.

I would have to say that skills are divided into weapon, magic, misc, craft instead of combat, magic, stealth..

This is my prediction, counting 18 skills and 5 magic schools..



Weapon
-1h
-2h (more logic than blade and blunt)
-shield (shield attacks ftw)
-ranged (bow, xbow pefully, figers crossed 4 thrown)
-martial arts (h2h + acrobatics)

Magic
- destruction
- illusion
- conjuration
- alteration
- restoration

Misc
- sneak
- security (makes sense to stay apart)
- charm (speech + mercantile)
- fitness (athletics + armor skillz)
- lore

Craft
- Alchemy
- Enchant
- Smithing (armorer +)

Let me explain Fitness: it combines athletics with armor skills.. The more "fit" you are the heavier armor you can carry and be effective in. For a bookworm mage worthless, usefully for a thief, important for a battlemage and crucial for a fighter.

Now about the Lore skill.. Yes, its possible this last spot will be acrobatics or mercantile, but I don't think so..
The lore skill can be tied to gameplay, understanding prophecies, finding lost artifacts, reading lost documents, maybe even speaking dragon..
If you don't level it, you need to find someone who did (npc) to translate and help you and if you do maybe you can finish the game by forming an alliance with the dragons instead of slaughtering them..

Magic 7
Alchemy Illusion Destruction Alteration Restoration Conjuration Enchanting

Combat 6
Smithing One-Handed Two-Handed Block Armor Hand-to-hand

Stealth 5
Athletics Marksman Security Sneak Speechcraft

Ok again its WHEEL.

So its Alchemy Illusion Destruction Alteration Restoration Conjuration Enchanting Smithing One-Handed Two-Handed Armor Hand-to-hand marksman atheltics security speech barter alchemy illusion destruction....keeps turning...

And you can see 7 skills at one time.. just turn the wheel. And f you fall on the sign of the warrior all the skills you see fill up warrior signs.. if you turn to the sign of the mage all the skills there fill up the sign of the mage and finaly if you turn to the sign of the thief all the skills you see there fill up the sign of the thief.

simple realy.

That would be fine, except that 7*3 is 21, and there are only 18 skills, so it doesn't add up. I think that if it is a wheel (can you provide a quote or source for this?) it could just as well be a single wheel that moves by one skill every time you move right or left, rather than by a whole "page" every time you move right or left. I think this is more likely, and the sign in the background is either your birthsign, or the sign that most closely represents the skill you have currently selected (as opposed to the whole "page" of skills you have selected, like in your example).

That would explain why we can see half of smithing and alchemy on the skill page.

My prediction for the skill list so far:

Warrior:

+ Blade / 1H
+ Blunt / 2 H
+ Block
+ Smith

Two of the following:
+ Hand-to-Hand
or
+ Heavy Armor
or
+ Spear / Polearms

Mage:

+ Enchant
+ Illusion
+ Destruction
+ Restoration
+ Alteration
+ Conjuration

Thief:
+ Alchemy
+ Speechcraft
+ Acrobatics / Athletics
+ Marksman
Skill combination of Sneak and Security AND Light Armor
or
Sneak and Security as seperate skills and no light armor skill.

You didnt understand what I said.. its not 3 pages it is a wheel you turn left or right.

hen you turn the wheel far enough to be on the sign of the mage and that I think is over destruction evey skill you see is magical.

Thing is alchemy is BOTH magical and stealth... and there might be a skill that is both combat and stealth or there might be a skill that is both magic and combat.. either way doesnt matter.

As for a quote.. I just looked at the pic showing the skills and it looks like it goes in a wheel of star formations a zodiac like thing so I thought well this just spins around so maybe if smithing is on that side warrior skills are to the right and stealth to the left.. that means alchemy could be both in the mage and stealth groupings.

I think it will just be removal of Mysticism (Todd said it was redundant) and both Armor skills (lots of people here pointed out its redundancy, so I can see Todd following them).

Would be the least wishful scenario maybe (no room created for much-requested skills), but I find it very likely.
It would probably be up to the perks to differentiate between Blade, as in longsword, and Blade, as in dagger etc.

Spears better be in or I'm seriously gonna mark this game down a peg for laziness in the weapon department. :verymad: