Hi,

I started mi account on this forum just for the sake of Roleplaying and of Fanfictions. Let's say I am not really keen to post whenever possible, but when it comes to roleplay, I just can’t resist. I might have played with wery few roleplayers (sry for letting u down if I did, had some trouble in college) and might have read some of the fanfics here ( Bsparrows "Of fate, luck and ambition", Lorcas "Lorckas books", Acadians "Buffy the bowgirl", all really enthralling, keep it up, guys :goodjob: ), but I have the feeling I just can't write in a “convincing” enough way.

I know I am not the only person in this forum who is frustrated with his/her style, so I just wanted to ask all these FF veterans if they could give a hint or two on how to make a story interesting. I am not satisfied with my work, but I love my char and think he and his story is awesome (on the other hand: who DOESNT think his / her char and story is awesome?). After all, we all strive for perfection in our stories in order to share their result in a specific community. The thing is, some people lack the ability of writing, as well as there are some people that have the talent of writing - as the authors mentioned above. I admire each and every one of them, not only that, I envy them. How can you guys write like that? How can you make your chars so... AWESOME?! I am pretty aware I am sounding like a bootlicking adoring fan, but perhaps I can lure you to this threat and make answer to my pledge :icecream: .

I am sure that this has been done thousands of times, and newbies come and go. I consider myself a newbie that wants to stick to this community and become a not-so-noobish-writer. May your response help noobish people like me. You are my inspiration in hours of despair in front of a blank folio. I this time I am NOT bootlicking.

Thanks and regards,

Your faithful adoring fan Albo.

EDIT: Omg just realized I did not include other geniuses in this community up there, like Darkom or Helena (your char Ada is too funny ). And, of course, the guys who were commenting right from the beginning. Sry, didn't want to offend you.

Wow, thanks!

I'm totally new to this premise myself, so don't feel intimated, they're a friendly and helpful bunch here. I know nothing about RP, but http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=747418 seems to be a good place to start.

As for fiction, just start writing! My thing is turning my main character in Oblivion into an author, in the TES universe itself, after the events of Oblivion. To start with, I outline the main plot and premise, then insert the details. For example, a return to Oblivion. Reasons why and how. Readers are usually familiar with the Oblivion landscape, so I admittedly skimp in the description, since it's sometimes redundant. Hopefully my character is compelling too, the most important thing...nuances, traits, agenda, development. I RP'd my way through all of the Oblivion quests, which made it easier.

My approach is a tad different to the usual story approach, but the same principles apply.

A good way to start is by figuring out who your character is, and putting them in an interesting situation that shows us who they are. You don't have to start with that situation when you tell the story, but it helps you know what to do with the character.

While I can't say much as its....already been said. Just remember certain things, description, character development, a catchy story. I've had some good success in the Fallout section of FF, so I plan on trying Fiction here. One last thing, have some fun, and write not just for you, but for everyone!

Practice.

And don't forget to have fun.

When you write to have fun, you are progressing. When the fun stops, the learning process stops.

yeah I did read that threat; there are really nice advices there. However, I DO follow all the Rp rules with stricktness, trying to be as accurate and as non-ubering as possible (unless its allowed ), so that's not the problem. Roleplaying is like the interactive version of writing a fanfic, IMHO. So, in consequence, if you cannot describe situations well or charackterise your char in a convincing way, there is no point in roleplaying, even IF you understand all the RP rules.

thanks for your suggestions, Lorca1



yeah that seems quite reasonable and could attrakt the readers attention and interest, thanks Shades.

As english is not my mother-tounge, it's sometimes complicated writing more complex sentences or using complex vocab. When is it "safe" to use more complicated sentences? Where would you use complicated words?

Also, how important is grammar and ortography? I am shure I am making mistakes right now, but I cannot tell them. While writing, I always triple-check everything, but I make mistakes too often, and I know that this disencourages the reader to keep on reading. So how important is correct gramar use and knowledge?

Questions, questions and more questions.... :wacko: thanks for your responses!

If you're not a native English speaker, nobody will care too much if grammar is a bit awkward now and again or if you misspell something, nobody reads these things just to find examples of flawless grammar.

Just have a crack, introduce your character and let it flow from there!

If English is not your native language, then do not worry about making complex sentences and using 'fancy' words all the time. Just keep to the basics. Maybe as you write more, you'll learn, and then you can just set off from there.

I suppose grammar, punctuation and spelling are important as it simply makes it easier for others to read. And when writing fan fics, people will criticize your English no matter where you come from - not to be harsh, but so you improve. However, Microsoft Word can easily counter bad grammar and spelling. Sure, it may not recognise everything, but it will point out spelling, punctuation and most grammar mistakes.

Overall, people will not be too pushy over good grammar, but it is recommended to look more professional and readable. As long as you try your best with it, you'll be fine.

Thanks for encouraging me writing stuff . I DO have fun writing, well, kind of. My fun is being spoiled very time I read what I've written. Everything sounds shallow and clich?. It disgusts me, and then I lose confidence and the will to keep on writing



I introduced one two days ago, I think, but I regret it now. If there were some way to delete my threat, I would do it. Too many errors and the story is just... well I dont like it. However, I will be "reposting" my main chars story in a different way, I think.



Hm... I will keep that in mind. Thanks Christo

If you look at what I consider some of the most successful stories (my opinion), you will see that they are character-driven. Acadian's Buffy, mALX1's Maxical, etc. are memorable characters, with distinct personalities and traits.

The wrong way to introduce a character- "I am Leet the Uber, Level 50 Spellsword." That means nothing to a non-gamer. And it is dull, besides.

Bring in the details that make your character unique slowly, in places where it is natural for the quirk, flaw, or trait to come up.

"It was a tomb. Of course it would be a tomb. Trey shuddered. The undead- how to put it? The undead scared him."

Know who your character is and what you want to happen. Think about situations and how your character will react. How does he feel about various groups, races, factions, etc. ? Who is he? Where did he come from? What does he want?

As above- have FUN. If it stops being fun for you, it isn't worth it.

Cliches are inevitable, nothing is "Original" its all been used at some time, just try to mix it up a bit. On grammar, I didn't see a lot of problems, just a few.

As in this, lets take a Genre at random.

Disease.

And turn that into tiny sub-genres?

Zombies, mutants, demonic spawns.

That can be said for any thing.

Don't let me catch you saying anything of this sort again Albo. You're new to the forums. You shouldn't expect to be at your prime already. Most of us, if not all of us, were once at the same level of writing as you are right now. It's important to remember that without mistakes you'd never get any better. You'd stay on the same level you're growing tired with now. If you hadn't posted that story you wouldn't know just how lackluster you think you are. Therefore, you wouldn't want to improve. You would've went on thinking your writing was brilliant.

You will always be criticised. It's one of the three things to expect in life. Not only in the real world, but in this world as well. This fanfiction world you've decided to step into isn't a cruel one. People will help guide you to near perfection and you'll look back and realize without some determination, you'd never reach satifaction. I can tell you from experience, even after almost three years here on the forum, I still know there are errors to be corrected.

You can't expect to improve overnight. Keep your chin up, ask for help, practice writing when you get the chance, or if you've written something but you aren't sure if you should post it, just send it via PM to someone who you think can critique it. Aside from being brutally honest, your forum friends will help you improve. So get out there and prepare to hear that a story isn't interesting or a word isn't spelled correctly. It happens. The quicker you accept that truth, the quicker you'll want to make sure there are fewer and fewer of them.

Good luck and remember to be proud of yourself for at least admitting you need help.

-Dren

My advice would be simply to write as often as possible early on. Just practicing constructing sentences can be amazingly helpful.

If your not in the mood to work on your characters story just find something you are interested in and describe it with words.

The hardest part of writing has to be taking what your thinking and translating it into words. So practice whenever you can, because practicing is the only way to improve.

Also, another challenge many writers face is learning pacing. The rate at which your story progresses, or even just the rate at which a specific scene progresses, can really change what is conveyed with your writing. So mastering this can be the difference between great writing and just average writing.

Grammar, spelling, sentence structure, and word choice can all be great ways to improve your writing. If your writing causes the reader to stumble through the story, or forces them to go back and reread small sections, do to awkward sentences immersion can be broken and that is always bad.

Also remember to edit your own writing BEFORE you post it on the forums. If you show dedication to your writing others are more likely to do the same. Spell check, read aloud, and don't be afraid to make changes when needed.

The above pieces of advice are only a small part of what it takes to be a good writer, but since I really have little experience myself this is all I thought to post as of now. If I come up with more later I may return to post it.

Ok, there are two last things I would like to say. One, If you find yourself in need of some more specific help in the future, I am but a PM away, don't hesitate to message me. Lastly, I would like to wish you the best of luck with your writing. I look forward to seeing what you can produce.

~Digz~

Edit: Speaking of editing...I edited this post more then a few times.

I couldn't agree with Dignity more. You have to practice, practice, practice. If you really want to be a successful rper/fanfic writer, you will be.

Same here, friend. Didn't stop me.

All wonderful advice above. In my case, Treydog was spot on. My charcter has driven my writing. I started with a good command of grammar, spelling, sentence structure, vocabulary and organization. All quite dry things. I also started with no clue at all about creative writing or perspectives or show vs tell or the power of descriptions and dialogue. A potential recipe for a grammatically correct exercise in boredom.

What I had in my favor though was an intense passion for my character that could not be hidden by my lack of talent. This forum is a wonderful group. Many quickly came to my aid to gently guide me in shoring up my weaknesses. Others came simply to offer encouragement - so critical for a tentative new writer to hear.

Then, hard work. Countless edits. Then more encouragement and wonderful advice such at this:



The work is never done it seems. My own writing has improved, but I can cite countless writers here that cause me to drop my jaw and ponder how in the world can they craft words together with such power, grace and beauty. Then, feeling inadequate but inspired, I go back to editing and try to somehow paint or rearrange or choose better words in a neverending quest to make it sing and be worthy of my Buffy and those who grace us by their readership.

I hope my above ramblings are of some help. Now, a bit more specifically:

Grammar and spelling. Merely a distraction, but one that should be overcome. Practice, critiques and research can help. Reading quality work can help 'imprint' what 'sounds' correct.

Complicated sentences. Often (in my opinion) counterproductive. Read your draft aloud. It should move along clearly. If you have to read your sentence twice or carefully, it is probably too complex.

'Fancy words.' It depends. If your purpose is too project a scholarly tone (such as the work of Lorca), then it can help. In dialogue particularly, match your words to the temperment, background and character of those who speak them. When narrating, don't be afraid to consider creative words as long as they do not cause the reader to stumble on their meaning.

Some research on the craft is helpful. Perspectives. Tell vs show vs dialogue and what each can do.

Read and ponder the work of writers here who do things you want to do. Try to anolyze what they do that you like and why.

Study not just the writers you admire, but the constructive critiques they receive.

Lastly, jump in. There is no substitute for laying bare a bit of your soul and entering the Arena.

It is hard for me to add more to this thread, given all the good advice I see. What I can do is reinforce the need to be able to accept criticism graciously, and make good use of it to fix your writing. No one can catch all the mistakes they make. Even people who have been earning their bread and butter at writing for decades still need an editor. Editing your own work is a necessity. I usually do at least four complete edits of anything I write after the first draft. But the problem is that the more you look at the same text, often the less of it you actually see. It is just the way the human brain works. Because you have seen it so many times your brain skips over things. That is why a fresh pair of eyes is needed to find mistakes, which are often plain as day to them, but you were completely oblivious to because you had stared at it all too many times.

If you can't take criticism, don't post your writing. We don't want elitist attitudes.

Thank you very much for your sincere and productive criticism. That's what I appreciate about this forum. This will surely help me. I know it sounds stupid, but nobody told me these things. It's like the first time I learn writing stories, although I wrote countless stories in my life.



Well said, Lord Dren. I admit that my impatience or eagerness is one of my many flaws. I shall take your advice seriously and compare the story I wrote today to the story I'll be hopefully writing next year. I might find some differences of my style, if I keep up my writing pace?



I'll definitely keep your advices in mind. Thanks so much for your offer, Dignity. Expect a story or two this weekend. Hope I won't bore you.



Good! I already feel my willpower recovering! (I play too much TES, should probably go back to writing?)



They actually are of great help. Thanks Acadian. ^_^



Copied that, redsrock. No more whining about harsh criticism.
:toughninja:

Well, if you are not a native english speaker (yet are sure you want to write english stories), then one point you will always be weaker in is word choice and grammar. I hate to say it, but it takes a lot more work to be as good as the native speakers at english. If you really want it, you'll have to keep trying

As far as stories go, one thing I always advise is planning. Before you right anything over a thousand words, plan every single major event. Any ideas that come into your head, write them down! Anything at all, even if it is just one character's reaction to something. Plan for a month if you need to

After planning, write out each character's personality beforehand. My favorite way to do this is make some character sheets, like you would do for an RP, and be sure to go into detail about personality and appearance. Trust me, if you try to just write a character based off a name and a plot, there will be very little connection to the reader. And even if you manage to get into their head, it probably won't be for a few chapters.

Once you finish that, you are ready to write. Take each chapter one at a time; you should already have all your chapters planned out to the conclusion. Start with the introduction (arguably one of the most important ones), and go from there. Let the scene flow from your mind, since you already know what you are going to do in the scene, just let it go. This might be harder for you, but just keep working at it.

After you've got that down, just keep in mind all the principles of writing. Don't try to get it perfect the first time- take it one rule at a time. With each story you do you'll learn more and more. And eventually you'll look at your first stories and see how far you've come And then, stage one is complete :ninja:

Also, while you write, read! Read your favorite novels (english if you want to write in it), and just think about them. Enjoy the book like normal, but also study it when you get the chance. Recognize foreshadowing, characterization, suspense, twists, etc. It might sound weird, but you can even take writing classes or look up things online about writing. Wikipedia and google, believe it or not, can lead to some good results.

If you need some stories, I always reccomend the classics. Stories http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_Nights in particular was one of the first stories to use a lot of cool literary devices. Or just your favorite novel (I just finished Dune, myself).

All in all, just keep reading and writing. Always ask questions and always accept criticism with grace. Never rate yourself compared to other people, only with your past works. Good job, and keep it up :goodjob:


PS Thank you very much for mentioning me. It really makes me feel all warm and fuzzy :touched: But I'm sure there are plenty of others that deserve honorable mention first

@Darkom: Same here. Haha. I appreciate the recognition. But glory and praise isn't the purpose for me giving him advice.
@Albo: It's because I feel as though you're walking in the same pair of shoes I walked in long ago. Maybe even the same as Lycan, Uglius Maximus, FC4, DEFRON, Illusionary Nothing, Heldwyn, and many of the other veterans who've long passed that initiation torch down the line. You've got plenty of people rooting for you my friend. Give it your all and you will succeed.

Dren

The pace of a story is very important. The worst thing a person can do is to build a story up and up and up and then have the murder / battle take place in the space of one line.

After I write a small chapter I always ask myself again - "What are the key moments in this part of the story?"
Then I go back to the writing and let my pen 'linger' over that part, adding more to it if needed.
It is very important to have those 'key moments' stand out.

True, many don't have the patience to slow the pace down and instead hurry forward and destroy their stories. Again, it takes practice.

What you don't seem to have noticed is that you are writing (in this thread) and it has been quite expressive. It also has conveyed that most illusive and precious thing in the printed word; your humanity. I wouldn't worry about a language barrier. Just try to stay in touch with who you are and your stories will write themselves.

If you have anything you need doing regarding a topic, contact myself or another moderator. We are only too happy to help out and in fact prefer to sort things out before they get out of hand.