Indeed you can't merge a mod and the master it depends on.

Well OK merge maestros ? have a I got some questions for you.
Inspired by this person: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=19994 I spent the evening trying to map out and figure a way to combine most of the following mod groups together:
Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch 1.4.0 - Quarn & Kivan
Unofficial Official Mods Patch v15 - Quarn & Kivan
SM Plugin Refurbish 1.12 - Strategy Master
Since I plan on using the new Frostcrag Revisited 1.4 I did not need to combine in the frostcrag UOMP and the SM Refurbish for that. So, I figured I'd use this as an opportunity to test my merging abilities and came away with more questions after finishing.
To begin with, Mr. Human Bean adds no bash tags to his mega merge. Possible problem right there, doesn't seem Wrye Bash friendly (so this idea might be good with normal load orders, but nor Wrye Bash).

The mods I wish to merge are as follows:

Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp 1.4.0 {{BASH:C.Light,C.Owner,Invent,Names,Stats}}SM Plugin Refurbish ? SI.esp 1.11		DLC Horse Armor ? Unofficial Patch.esp 1.05 {{BASH:C.Light,C.Owner}}SM Plugin Refurbish ? HorseArmor.esp 1.11DLCOrrey ? Unofficial Patch.esp 1.0.3 {{BASH:C.Light}}SM Plugin Refurbish ? Orrey.esp 1.11DLCVileLair ? Unofficial Patch.esp 1.0.5 {{BASH:C.Light}}SM Plugin Refurbish ? Vile Lair.esp 1.11DLCMehrunesRazor ? Unofficial Patch.esp 1.0.4 {{BASH:C.Light,Relev}}SM Plugin Refurbish ? MehrunesRazor.esp 1.11DLCThievesDen ? Unofficial Patch.esp 1.0.5 {{BASH:C.Light,Relev}}DLCThievesDen ? Unofficial Patch.esp 1.0.4 {{BASH:C.Light}}SM Plugin Refurbish ? Thieves Den 1.11DLCBattlehornCastle ? Unofficial Patch.esp 1.0.4 {{BASH:C.Light,C.Owner}}SM Plugin Refurbish ? Battlehorn.espKnights ? Unofficial Patch.esp 1.0.9 {{BASH:C.Light,Invent,Names,Relev,Stats}}

I notice that Gecko does not import tags into merged mods. so Question (1)
If the final merged mod had all these tags ? is that harmful? I guess it would also mean that tags (releve,deleve) would be added to content such as the Orrey, which normally would not require those tags. I'd use Wrye Bash and tag it myself.
Question (2) The above list does not include the:DLCSpellTomes ? Unofficial Patch.esp 1.0.1 {{BASH:Graphics,NoMerge}} Which has a bash/no merge option ? is merging that into this mod (and not bash) OK?

Question (3) Nor does it include:
SM Plugin Refurbish ? Knights.esp 1.06 Which is a mergeable (into bash) mod ? would merging this into this mod be OK?
Question (4) Could Wrye's Knights patch: http://wrye.ufrealms.net/Knights%20Patch.html also be integrated? (is that patch even necessary anymore?)

Question (5)Could the Mystic Emporium Bug Fix: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12745 also be merged ? even though, again, it is a normally merged into bash patch? (no real point to that other than being neat, I guess).

Finally Question (6) recommended load order if the mod and the numerous tags are acceptable.
I've already made the merged mod, but thought I'd check with you smarter than me people before launching it. I put the priority numbered as per the load order of these mods in BOSS.

Thanks all for any help on these matters please.

So... even though the 'master' for this one is an .esp, it can't be done?

I don't think TES4Gecko will accept that.

toj - I've not been able to do it - even using the merge to master function - it expects an .esm format in order to merge.

If you were to do it then the merged mod would have as a master a mod you had merged.

You can get tricky though by naming a merged mod after a mod that another uses as a master - if that mod has merged within it the master that is needed.

But with all of this - I'd go through Tes4view line by line with just those mods (the originals) active - looking for conflicts and then thinking about the merge priority.

You have to be careful with the tags. Especially for Spell Tomes UOMP, in fact, I'm not sure it should be tagged. Mine isn't and it all seems to be working properly. You certainly don't want to be using things like Graphics and NoMerge on it in a mega package since that will then apply to the ENTIRE merged mod. See what I'm getting at?



Nope. Tags are just description text and Gecko has no idea what they mean. It generally just uses the description from the first mod on the list, which would include any tags it has.



Well the Delev/Relev isn't something I'm completely sure on. But the Light and Climate ones should still be used as what they're trying to do will end up merged into the larger ESP and still need to be done. But it does come at the slight danger of causing plenty of other cells to pick up on the changes that otherwise may not need them.



Don't see why it had those tags, ever. You'd probably want to remove those.



No, because once its contents are merged the larger file will have cell records and Bash won't merge those.



Both of those have been rendered obsolete by the current UOMPs. You don't need them at all.



Well. Obviously it'll need to go after your DLCs, and those will need to all be in a block somewhere together, including Knigts.esp. The result may also require you to shuffle your DLC order around a bit. And you won't be able to allow BOSS to move Knights.esp around on you anymore.

This is also something that's going to mandate you be extra alert for bugs. I'd recommend backing up saves and proceeding with a test subject or other semi-throwaway save you can risk on it.

yeah I hear you about the bugs, this may be over my head at this point.

but ...

So mystic emporium is fixed? I still had that problem with the recent stuff??? Hmm? Need to recheck that.
Wrye knights - going going gone
DLC spell tomes - should be active? Wrye seems to want it to be merged and the latest Wrye Bash recognizes it as mergeable automatically. Strange? Seems I read somewhere - where though - that it needed those tags. Just unzipped it again and Wrye recognizes it as merageable, but no graphics tag. So you suggest keeping it active and with no tags?

So the C. Lights, Invent, Stats, Relev, Delev are all unkown quantities when applied to all the patches merged? Unnggh - headache. Especially since all the areas this touches - my PC has not even discovered yet.

I may test it out later - with as you say expendable saves, but so far - yeah this is a bit over my head for now.

Too bad would have reduced some 15 slots.

While I can certainly appreciate simple mods (many I love) it seems that the DLC UOPs and SMs could be offered as merges. Hmmm well no tags on the SM patchs - that may be a go!

thanks Arthmoor

[edit] well I'm pretty sure that the stats tag is for changing weapons to MOBS stats, which wouldn't be that bad because other mods do the same. The rest of the tags - not so sure.

This may or may not work:
Convert the master ESP to ESM (use Gecko)
Change the master in the dependent mod to the ESM (use Wrye Bash)
Merge to Master (use Gecko)
Convert the resulting merged ESM to ESP (use Gecko)

I'm 99.9% positive Kivan fixed that via scripts, and was at least partly why he tagged all the UOMP stuff so Bash could fix the issue itself. The bug being in the original DLC files and all.



Yes. I have it active, not merged. Tagged with nothing at all. DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp is marked as being mergeable but also is not tagged and is currently active. The spell tomes show up in loot for me, so I know they work.



C.Light and C.Climate should be relatively harmless applied to the merge file. Invent may or may not be desireable, it depends on how much inventory mucking the other patch files are doing. Relev and Delev would only affect any leveled lists involved.



Stats has nothing to do with MOBS. All Stats does is tell it to import weapon stats from the file. Which again may not be what you'd want it to do in a large merge because the tag would apply to every weapon in the file, not just those from the original file.

I just ran through testing the Mystic Emporium bug and with frostcrag before or after battlehorn the door remains locked. So, I dunno. The fix mod is mergeable so it is not like it is eating a slot or anything. Back in it goes.

Before when I posted about DLC spell tomes - I was ever talking only about the unofficial patch - not the original DLC mod. I will try with it active even though it is marked mergeable. I have been noticing that I get mostly only one spell book (midas force burst not even a DLC), som maybe this will address that.

as of the tags and all that - will think more on it.

Inventory - is Item Interchange considered mucking?

thanks Arthmoor

Vorians - do you have any feedback about those tags and this 'project'

if so would love feedback.

Not really, I don't bother with setting Bash tags. If an ESP has them already, all well and good. But again I must point out that I don't have time to play the game. All my free time goes into modding. When I last played the game, bash tags didn't exist. So until I get back to actually playing the game again, bash tags will be fairly irellevent to me The only input I have on them is not to use C.Water on ANY mod unless it's a landscape overhaul (like the UL mods). It certainly doesn't belong on the unofficial patch ESP.

It's not load order fixable. That's why the tag got added to the Frostcrag UOMP. Didn't you say you're using Frostcrag Reborn? ( or was that someone else? ).



That would highly suggest that Midas has taken over that leveled list and blocked out anything else that was using it before. Which means in your case it would be a good idea to tag the DLC, not the patch, though the patch may need it to. I'd have to look again to be sure what it's patching



You could say that.
I have no idea what that mod actually does though, you'd need to ask Vacuity. Reading explanations of what he's doing with it made my head spin.

I just installed Frostcrag revisited (not reborn) tonight. Prior to that I could not get the door to open regardless of load order or use of the unofficial patches - only that mod fixed it. I made sure I had the most recent patches too (last fall). Oh well, again I found an answer. Perhaps - maybe - doubtful better cities has something to do with it?

Midas took over leveled lists - hmm wish that there were an active Midas thread. I asked in the last one that came up and no reply - maybe FCOM thread. Vacuity didn't seem to have an answer in his thread either. Maybe will try some load order tweaks. Will try no tags first - as tags on the UOP led to more of the midas tome.

Next chance to play around with this I will merge the SM refurbishes - that is about 6 slots less.
thanks man

[EDIT] no actually I cannot get Frostcrag Revisited to resolve the mystic emporium bug at all. took the topic here: http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=936397&view=findpost&p=13597393 if anyone has suggestions.

So I'm still looking for a way to merge mods and not lose their items in game, now I'm into merging house mods... but imagine loosing my items in the containers there.. really, isnt there a way to avoid that somehow? even with bash? I dont know how to use it properly however...

I believe I tried this and it didn't work. The dependent mod still retains it's dependency.

This would replace the dependent mod.

What I mean, is that the new mod you create then becomes dependent on itself.

I.e.

Races.esp
Companions.esp (dependent on races)

Do your thing above and make into Races and Companions.esp. (after esmify, etc).

Races and Companions now is dependent on Races and Companions. (this is what it says in the master list).

Well that's an odd result from Merge to Master.

Is it not supposed to do that? If not, maybe I did something wrong.

I would expect it to merge the ESP into the ESM, and create a new merged file which has no dependencies.

I'll try again and see what happens.

After my retry... it worked!

I think I did some wrong changes with wrong programs... like use Wyre Bash to esmify or copy, when you suggested Gecko.

This worked perfectly!

Well actually, let me go load it to see if it worked. :hubbahubba:

Yes testing in-game is a good idea

I don't quite understand the priority system when merging plugins. For instance if some of the data of two plug ins overlapped, would plug in priority 2 override plugin priority 1 or visa versa?

Seems to work just fine!

Thanks man... I *thought* I knew what I was doing... but I my experience (less than 1 day) is still affecting me.