Oblivion was a great game and all, but becoming the Arch mage without ever once casting a spell, is just bull, plain and simple. Morrowind had it so if you wanted to get to a high rank, you needed to know what you were doing in order to achieve it.

But it wasn't as if Morrowind required you to cast spells either. You could pay the trainer to increase your magical skill to get yourself a new rank. In Oblivion at least there was a quest that required spellcasting, though the brawn types could still complete it because they had spell scrolls. If we actually want some role playing to be involved in the guilds, they need to make the quests somehow require the skillset they promote. In Daggerfall, they asked you to cast specific spells to complete quests, I don't think that's unreasonable.

And that works out to the same effect, without a fake barrier in the guild. How are they supposed to measure the difference between someone of 69 skill and someone of 70? We can't treat the skill numbers like they are real in the gameworld, we have to treat the skill that they represent as a real thing.

Training –noun
1.
the education, instruction, or discipline of a person or thing that is being trained

Paying someone to show you something about a skill and learning it the hard way through trial and error has the same end result.

Sure, like driving. All those books on driving really prepare you to drive.

If guild advancement is based on respect then you should be able to gain respect and loose respect. The missions you complete should have criteria you need to meet. Like in the thief’s guild you should have to steal an item without being seen, if you do get seen the guild will think less of you. Same for all the other guilds. This could include spell specific quests where the mages guild looks down on the use of scrolls and loose respect for you for having to use a scroll.

They could use a combination of quests that are incomplete-able without a specific skill set, and quests which are complete-able but which you loose respect if you don’t use the required skill set.

EDIT: But only if you are found out. A skilled con-man should always be able to work their way to the top without the need for other skills.

man I just want common sense

if I don't know magic I SHOULD not become arch mage in 5 minutes

if I can't use a sword I can't be a fighter in a "fighter's guild"

and if I can't pick a lock I should not be accepted into the "thieves" guild.

Right, because when you enroll in driving school all you do is read. :shakehead:

Skills and rep, as others have mentioned.

Indeed. Reading is actually detrimental to learning skills. We could all hold a book burning in protest.

also leaves room for adding more quests that can be given by guild masters