In Morrowind you needed to be a certain level in particular skills (that were related to the faction) to get to the next level in the guilds, and get more quests. Oblivion took this away. This meant that you didn't need to know an oz. of magic to be the Head of the Mage's Guild. I've seen some complaints about this but never heard arguments for Oblivion's way of doing it, and wondered what the majority's opinion is.

So vote and discuss.

How I think it should work: As long as you had at least one skill (from the required list) high enough you could advance within the Guild. The Fighter's Guild would have an armour skill requirement (Heavy, Light, more if there are more), and a fighting requirement (Unarmed, Blade (or more diverse), Blunt, Marksmen). As long as one of these skills was high enough you could advance. For the Mage's Guild, you would only need one of the magic skills to be high enough. Other factions that don't have a play style would not require any skill to be a certain level.

basically the system would be best i think think just as it was in MW

You could have edited your last thread :shrug:

Anyway, I would like to see advancement requirements. It felt so dull in Oblivion that you could have a level 1 character to be the head of all guilds.

Skill requirements as well as the usual quest requirements. I found it rather strange when my Assassin got to head of the Fighter's Guild. Also, if you join the Blades again, you should be able to choose which service you go into; the public ones that protect the Empire (yeah I know, they're Emporer bodyguards, but I'd imagine they'd just go to protecting the Empire since there isn't an Emporer) or the spies.

Yea i want morrowind style. Then the Oblivion achievements would be harder aswell,

Like if the put the same kind of achievements in Skyrim.

I didn't think you could change polls. I'll remember that though.



Technically you could still do that though couldn't you? You didn't need to level up to level up skills. I was thinking of character level requirements, but that could annoy some people without really adding much.

I assume most people want MW's system.

Both skill and reputation. You shouldn't be able to join the Fighters Guild if you are a member of the Dark Brotherhood and vice versa, et cetera.

I'd rather see tougher requirements for advancement
not only would you have to do quests, but you need the stats and there is a certain amount of gameplay time you must be that rank in order to gain the next one.

Bring back the skill level requirements for advancement.

Please. It should take an archmage to become the (drumroll) archmage of the Mage's guild (or the Synod of CoW, or however it works in TESV).

I want you to have to complete more jobs too, as it felt kind of cheesy being some 'Guardian' or third-in-command or something when you've only completed what feels like 7 or 8 quests.

here's something that bothered me about morrowind.
you become a journeyman in the mages guild by helping ajira collect mushrooms to write a paper for her journeyman promotion.

What do you mean one shouldn't? If you are a good assassin/thief, no one would know you are part of the DB/TG. The only thing that should prevent membership or advancement is skill and reputation, in that faction. If you have the skill, and have shown your loyalty, then you get promoted. Of course, I think joining organizations that are at each others throats (ex. Mages Guild and Telvanni) should be extremely difficult, and require extremely huge amounts of planning. And then there are organizations that just despise each other (ex. the houses).

Yes and no. Requirements (or lack of) ought to vary from guild to guild, faction to faction, I think; while Morrowind's system would serve for most purposes (Fighters Guild requires fighting-related skill ranks and quests, Mages Guild requires spellcasting-related skills and quests...), it would be nice for there to be more complexity than that. Advancing in a guild, quests aside, could depend on interaction between the player and guild members, with dialogue paths and alliances determining NPCs' (and the guild's as a whole) reaction to the player.

So in purely mechanical terms I favour Morrowind's system (a combination of appropriate skills and sufficient quests), but I'd like advancement to depend more on the player's actual actions in, and behaviour towards, a given guild and its members.

I'd like to have Daggerfall/Morrowind style skill requirements. The lack requirements in Oblivion really cheapened the experience of rising up the ranks in factions. In earlier games, when you got a promotion, it felt like you actually deserved it... like you were promoted because of your qualifications, not merely as a blanket reward for doing a quest. In Oblivion, the promotions felt really fake. I do a quest, I get promoted. I do another quest, I get promoted again. I do a third quest, I get promoted again. Promotions don't mean very much when they come automatically like that.

If advancement in the real world worked like it does in Oblivion, anyone who has ever held down a job for more than a week would be a CEO.

They need to bring back the skill requirements from Morrowind. I always found it strange that in Oblivion my Nord barbarian with no magical ability whatsoever could not only join the Mage's Guild but could advance to Arch-Mage with almost no difficulty at all.

Respect and skills should be important for faction advancement, it prevents the generalisation of characters. One character shouldnt be able to easily become the head of the fighters guild, mages guild and thief guild at the same time.

I think the player should have to complete story missions to advance, in combination with random missions for faction respect.

Factions with just story missiosn feel as though they are short lived and unrealistic, like your not actually part of the guild but something completely different from other members. But only randomly generated quests like Daggerfall feel bland and uninteresting. A mix of the two should keep it going. Also random quests should be rank specific. So the new fighters guild member is the one who kills the rat in the basemant, and the high rank character commands the large armies.

Good point. I didn't even think of that, but it makes sense.

I liked how you could become a master at whatever you wanted in oblivion... I dont think you should have to choose to only be in certain guilds.....

In addition to skill level requirements they should add in faction reputation, i.e. you have to be respected in a faction to rank up in it (at least for leadership and officer positions).

Wish i woulda read this before i posted haha. this is how it should be i think.

I think they should distinguish between skill rating and rank. Generally, higher rank should be held by people who are good at politics/management, whereas better paying jobs should be assigned to those with higher skill rating (however, there should still be some skill requirements for advancement, if nothing else in terms of gateway quests that require the appropriate skills to complete). Since they are guilds, the general rank concept should mimic those of real guilds.

Apprentice: The character is receiving some initial training, sponsored by a Master, in exchange for miscellaneous services (not all of which are guild related). The apprentice has access only to low-level guild secrets (basic attacks, crafting techniques, or spell effects). They are associated with the guild, but aren't technically members.

Journeyman: The character has completed their training and been accepted into the guild as a lesser member. They are not allowed to take jobs directly, however; instead they must take assignments from Masters (on a contract basis). Journeyman generally travel from Master to Master and learn a broad range of abilities under their guidance. They can attend ordinary guild meetings, but cannot vote. Since they have a great deal of training but are legally limited in how they can apply their skills, there would be room for some socioeconomic anolysis here...

Master: A full, voting member of the guild, with access to all guild secrets. Able to select higher ranking guild members in elections. Can take on apprentices, hire journeymen for help, and take contracts directly from citizens. Generally considered unseemly to take Journeyman contracts from other Masters at this point. Must complete some special work or quest to prove his skill and loyalty to the guild.

Leaders: Elected by the Masters (names vary based on the guild). There is usually a town leader who represents the guild in town politics and in the regional guild council, as well as a regional leader who is, as far as the game is concerned, the head honcho. Neither should be open to the player, since he can't meaningfully fulfill the role.

The Guilds should be a double-edged sword. On the one hand, they provide a good means of advancement for characters of a certain archetype. However, any realistic guild only has power because it uses legal or extralegal means to restrict the supply of skilled labor in certain fields. As such, a Thieves Guild would deal harshly with non-affiliated thieves, an Assassins Guild would deal harshly with people who murder for others, and Fighters and Mages Guilds would work with local governments to punish those who use martial weaponry or spells or sold potions without being licensed by the guild.

I really hope they DON'T utilize the Morrowind method. How does someone know how proficient you are in a certain skill just by looking at you? How is it realistic that a mage with 75 destruction will get promoted but a mage with 74 won't?

Suggestions that you should only be able to join a few guilds worry me. If you are good at things you should be able to join guilds for them. A spell sword who has leveled up his sneak skill should be able to advance in the Fighter's, Thieve's, and Mage's guild, limited only by skill level and faction rep.

This would be great. If a second in command didn't like you you would have to somehow appeal to the leader (who trusts his second in command) or have him/her killed or a wide variety of options. Also this is unrelated to the poll but it needs to be much harder to get someone who hates you to suddenly like you. Instead of just throwing money at them to get their disposition up.