So guild questlines are short eh? : V - Skyrim

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:01 am

Companions -> Very Short
Mage Guild -> Short
Dark Brotherhood -> Medium
Main Quest -> Long
Thieves Guild -> Very Long

I really liked the mission variety in Oblivion, it's a shame there wasn't more of that, but I still enjoyed all questlines except Companions.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:09 pm

*pukes*

The radiant quests are terrible in this game. Dark Brotherhood would have been so much more enjoyable without random "Kill X" missions, and Thieves Guild might have actually been completed by me if it didn't require you to do 5 random burglaries in every city to unlock a "special mission".

This kind of logic is why the Civil War quest chain is just a series of keep capture missions, instead of a story of political struggle and true warfare. Ew. Ew.

Yeah bad writing in a Bethesda game. Who would have thought?

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:51 am

And I come out of retirement for one more.

Nowhere in this thread have I ever uttered the words about doing non guild quests. Read the [censored] thread before making yourself look foolish.

No. He has a point. I don't count the utterly boring quests of 'Go kill this animal', 'Go beat up this guy', 'Go fetch me this book from this cave', 'Go steal 500g worth of items from here', as SIDE QUESTS. They are not, they're simply tripe that Bethesda clamped onto incomplete, short, and dull Guild questlines to flesh them out. They are not side missions, they are "Go-do-that-something-mundane-because-we-couldn't-be-bothered-to-actually-write-anything-decent" quests. Well whoop-de-do, you enjoy that? I enjoy watching paint dry!

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:57 pm

Try Winterhold, "Hello new apprentice. Oh, archmage you say?"

I think forcing you to do a larger number of radiant quests as well as all minor quests before progressing would add to the experience, that should be moddable at least without new voice acting.
I've started to make myself to stop doing just their main quests so it feels less rushed.

Actually, I found the College of Winterhold questline to be quite believable, although completely infuriating:
(College of winterhold spoilers)

Spoiler

I wanted to give my position to the woman who actually deserved it... but those [censored] High Elves (Just as bad as the Thalmor) decided I had to be the college Archmage, ensuring that it would never function right. And nobody else could speak out against their screwing over the college, because they'd also just stolen an artifact the College worked hard to unearth, saying "We're not ready for it"... And damn essential NPCs prevented me from killing the thieving bastards.

Who knows what those actually capable of using the Eye can do with it, and I've seen no evidence that the Psjiics are any better than the Thalmor they're rivals of.

Yeah... that still ticks me off.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:38 am

is not only that questlines are shorter,but also because large chunk of the questlines are made up of dungeons much larger than in precious series, there are far fewer steps in advancing the faction storyline.

lack of these steps, or plot development makes quests less plausible. you do one or two quests and then its the fjnal showdown, which involves a long dungeon yes, but still its one stage.

TG questline does become very long, much longer than oblivion if you do all the jobs. nevertheless those jobs practically does nothing to add to the characteristics or immersion. they are completely separate quests with no story, no npc interaction or meaningful reward.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:04 pm

Actually, I found the College of Winterhold questline to be quite believable, although completely infuriating:
(College of winterhold spoilers)

Spoiler

I wanted to give my position to the woman who actually deserved it... but those [censored] High Elves (Just as bad as the Thalmor) decided I had to be the college Archmage, ensuring that it would never function right. And nobody else could speak out against their screwing over the college, because they'd also just stolen an artifact the College worked hard to unearth, saying "We're not ready for it"... And damn essential NPCs prevented me from killing the thieving bastards.

Who knows what those actually capable of using the Eye can do with it, and I've seen no evidence that the Psjiics are any better than the Thalmor they're rivals of.

Yeah... that still ticks me off.

This is what I thought the questline was going to be when you have your first vision in Saarthal.

I thought that the Eye had caused the great collapse, you inadvertently caused it through time through the use of the Eye of Magnus. The monk spoke of some great disaster that you are a large part of. As it turns out it's just a load of balls, and it makes no sense, and it's utterly utterly boring. Imagine how much better it would have been if you could revert the Great Collapse? Bring an entire town back into existence by righting a wrong that has yet to happen? Now that's a STORYLINE!

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:57 pm

This is what I thought the questline was going to be when you have your first vision in Saarthal.

I thought that the Eye had caused the great collapse, you inadvertently caused it through time through the use of the Eye of Magnus. The monk spoke of some great disaster that you are a large part of. As it turns out it's just a load of balls, and it makes no sense, and it's utterly utterly boring. Imagine how much better it would have been if you could revert the Great Collapse? Bring an entire town back into existence by righting a wrong that has yet to happen? Now that's a STORYLINE!

that would be so cool. 'the world is not ready for the eye' plot was so lame. it just involved an elf messing around in college hall and you trying to stop him....wow

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:22 am

Them being short has nothing to do with how long they take to complete, as that's determined on an entirely personal basis.
They're short because they lack content and pacing.

I'm going to have to quote you, because I don't think they heard you the first time.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:09 am

The problem is with things like the Mages College, where you are rushed through it. Ok, there isn't a timer or anything, but with the story being OMG HURRY HURRY HURRY APPRENTICE YOU MUST SAVE US!, it turns an already short questline, into something you complete in a handful of hours.

edit: Okay, so there is 8 pages of thread and that quote is from the first... Coulda sworn the threead only had 2 pages. Must have been looking at another one.

I fully agree. Everything was Hurry hurry hurry as you say, and me trying to Role Play the game, I did it in a Hurry. When done, I was like, HUH I am the Archmage? I just didn't feel like an Archmage. Also no real explanation as to why I am the Archmage while others, like Tolfir have not become Archmage, I just don't get.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:15 pm

how i think it should have being done,

You have a main quest and side quests ( not go punch someone in the face, an actual quest.), you complete a number of side quests and have a minimal level in some of the primarialy skills of the Faction, after doing that you have acess to one mission of the Main quest, and then the process repeats itself.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:19 am

how i think it should have being done,

You have a main quest and side quests ( not go punch someone in the face, an actual quest.), you complete a number of side quests and have a minimal level in some of the primarialy skills of the Faction, after doing that you have acess to one mission of the Main quest, and then the process repeats itself.

This would be a good way of giving a sense of progression.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:28 pm

And I come out of retirement for one more.

Nowhere in this thread have I ever uttered the words about doing non guild quests. Read the [censored] thread before making yourself look foolish.

Sidequests are from the Radiant quest lines, aka generic errands. They have nothing to do with the guild itself.

So yes, you did in fact talk about non guild quests.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:48 am

This would be a good way of giving a sense of progression.

that is how it used to be done in morrowind.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:20 am

They didn't even put a ranking system into the game for the factions lol. That was my first red flag that told me...oh [censored] this is going to be really short. There is zero sense of progression and achievement alongside incredibly weak and very unrealized plots. This is easily my biggest letdown for the new game. HUGE disappointment.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:04 am

I got annoyed at first when I complete the College of Winterhold in two days, where it took me around two weeks to do Mages Guild in OB. But then I realized it took so quick because I completely rushed through it. I didn't do any side quests or objectives, just ran straight through. :\

Now I've learned to pace myself, and the game is so much more fun. ^_^

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:28 pm

Sidequests are from the Radiant quest lines, aka generic errands. They have nothing to do with the guild itself.

So yes, you did in fact talk about non guild quests.

So I can walk up to a companion, without joining the guild, and do quests for them?

The Bedlam Jobs, the Fishing Jobs, the Numbers Jobs, the Burglary Jobs, the Shill Jobs, the Sweep Jobs, the Heist Jobs can be done without joining?

I did not know that.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:15 pm

The Thieves guild line was the only one that actually felt like a guild quest line. The MG was so short it was laughable. The DB wasn't much better. Haven't completed the Companions yet, but it seems pretty short as well. In the end, they are all very short except for the Thieves guild.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:44 am

Has anyone ever counted the number of steps in these questlines and actually compared to the number of steps in Oblivion's equivalent quest lines? While that doesn't necessarily compare time wise, it would still be interesting to see the differences.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:41 am

*sigh*

it is not my job to properly pace the f**king questlines, it is the developers. if you actively spaced out the guild quests to make it last longer, than youve just proven the point that they are too short on their own. what you do in between a questline does not count as part of the [censored] questline, and i dont know where you got the idea that playing for 20 hours, a small part of which was doing something for the thieves guild, counts as a 20 hour thieves guild.

that said, the thieves guild is actually the best of them all because there are plenty of radiant quests to occupy your time between quests, but that doesnt change the fact that the quests are very poorly paced to begin with and unless you already know what happens and when the questline still progresses much too fast. ALL guilds should have radiant quests like the thieves guild, and a certain number should be required to unlock the next part of the questline; this would greatly improve the pacing of the guilds, because you are actually working towards ranking up instead of going from newb to leader in the blink of an eye. on that note, there needs to be ranks so you dont just go from newb to leader at all because that is stupid. only in the DB does it make sense that the new guy gets preference over every other senior member. in OB, we had to kill a legendary lich and utterly destroy a competing guild before we became leader; there needs to be some significant action on our part to warrant promotion other than "because the questline says so".

it is much less about empirical length than it is the narrative pacing. you barely do anything then BAM "hello archmage!". moreover youre just led by the nose everywhere and dont really do much to warrant any sort of recognition, let alone recognition enough to ever become leader. again, the thieves guild had a lot of potential: everyone loves you because they are desperate, but they still hound you to do extra jobs, as that is the only reason they love you. you get recognition, but only because you are actively helping out. as you do more quests, more merchants come, everyone has more money... you see the effects of your actions pay off. really, it makes me believe the thieves guild is the only one bethesda came close to finishing, because all the others feel like the entire 2nd act is missing.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:19 am

Has anyone ever counted the number of steps in these questlines and actually compared to the number of steps in Oblivion's equivalent quest lines? While that doesn't necessarily compare time wise, it would still be interesting to see the differences.

Well, I know for a fact that it takes less time to become arch mage in Skyrim than it does to do the recommendation part of the Mages guild in Oblivion. You'd think lore wise a magic guild would be the longest, and take the longest to become master of, but in Skyrim it is hands down the shortest. there's a fair amount of radiant quests in the College, but that's about it.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:23 am

Winterhold Mages is the only guild that doesn't have any "non-fetch" repeatable jobs however. :laugh:

Bethesda must really hate mages.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:06 am

I've only played the Mage's Guild so far, and that was an utter disappointment. Most players, I think, will agree. It has a lot of unused potential and is very short.

I can't comment on the College , as i have yet to join that one yet. The Companions was shorter than expected but there are alot of radiant quests that i never touched....not to mention those ....special quests.

Thieves Guild was definatel fleshed out and took a decent amount of time to complete. Was very enjoyable and felt you earned the Guild Master spot.

Dark Brotherhood, I am about a 1/4 way through, but I'm enjoying it alot.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:36 pm

Compared to Oblivion, the questlines seem very short... and progression through the ranks seems very rushed.

Pretty much this. If Skyrim is your first TES game I would understand though, that way you don't have anything to compare it to.

» Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:38 pm

I totally agree with some of the comments about the College of Winterhold.

Even if the quest line technically wasn't short, it sure felt like it to me. The pacing of the story in it is just plain awful is probably the reason. The end result of the quest line makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in my opinion. I still liked it, but I'd have far preferred that it end

Spoiler

without your character inexplicably becoming the leader after a single lesson involving wards. The former Arch-Mage's death http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vmk6J_QvbIc. At least in that case it was supposed to feel sudden and pointless.

» Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:25 am

I fully agree. Everything was Hurry hurry hurry as you say, and me trying to Role Play the game, I did it in a Hurry. When done, I was like, HUH I am the Archmage? I just didn't feel like an Archmage. Also no real explanation as to why I am the Archmage while others, like Tolfir have not become Archmage, I just don't get.

The real question is, why does every guild questline have to end with you as the head of the organization? Why couldn't it be like the civil war questline (or Daggerfall factions in general) where you're just a very high ranking member?