Hey. I remember that in Morrowind, all of the guilds and factions (except for the main quest of course) had skill requirements to reach the next rank in the guild. For instance, to be a Journeyman in the Mages guild, you had to have a certain level of skill in some of the Magical schools to advance to that rank. Each guild had their own skill set that was important to the missions they give and the purpose of the guild. I was a little annoyed when my character in Oblivion, with no magical training at all, managed to become Archmage despite not knowing anything but the starter spells. Or the Gray Fox despite being about as stealthy as the Chinese New Year. For me, it kind of killed immersion and the sense that you'd actually worked to become the head of a guild.

So I was wondering if anyone else on the forum thought this way. feel free to state your opinion.

I always liked the idea. It makes playing multiple characters more fun. You have a reason to zero in on a set of skills ( though there's nothing stopping you from going up on others of course) and it can really help with the roleplay.

Though, to be honest, the lack of quests between ranks in Morrowind made things a bit stale. The Daggerfall series of random quests let you think you were doing something more to climb through the ranks. That could get a bit repetitive but when you're low-man on the guild totem pole, you get the jobs killing rats, escorting idiots, and the like. It made sense to me at least, not everything can, or should, be "epic."

It did seem a bit too easy to become the "head dude" of the guilds in OB. (Honestly, if one wanted "realism" - hah! - it was too easy in MW too. A normal Guild would only have someone with decades of experience in the guild and their field as Guildmaster. But, then, it is just a game.)

Yeah, being head of guilds in Oblivion at level 4 was kind of stupid. I loved Morrowinds system, it ensured that you had to actually play the game and be knowledgable of your skills before you were advanced in rank in guilds. That makes sense.

It lead to a lot of grinding in Morrowind because you couldn't continue anything until you hit that number. In Daggerfall you could just do another quest to gain those skills.

quick......close the poll its 100% in favor of requirements.

not only should there be requirements for joining and moving up the rank but there should be tests as well. i used a mod called "choices and consequences" that did a great job of this. for magic you were given a test spell in say expert level illusion and you had to cast it in view of the chapter head. she gave you a diploma and you could turn it into the arcane university and even get prizes for completing certian things like gaining journeyman in all magic schools.

alongside this they should also make it impossible to become the leader of all the factions in a single game. some guilds should deny you membership or limit your highest rank when you are affiliated with an opposing guild.

I'd prefer it if guild membership did actually mean something. Morrowind's was well done, but Oblivion's was, well, it was less about being a member of a guild, and more about being a Mercenary helping with various tasks that needed a different approach.


I personally think the best option would be to allow guild Storylines to be explored by all people, but actual membership in a guild, and the process of rising through the ranks, should be limited to those with the skills favored by that guild (Easier now with Skyrim's system of leveling).

It comes down to what a lot of people may dismiss as pointless, but suspension of disbelief is important for the overall feel of the game. Even if it was something relatively minor, like using Radiant Story to deliver odd jobs for an official member of the Guild, rather than the Warrior who happens to be helping around with various tasks, would be a nice compromise.

They are of a basic requirement (get what I did there :wink_smile: ) for a game of this size and reputation. What I think would be nice to see are minor factions you could join regardless of your set of skills that would mould themselves according to your skills - if your character is a warrior their ranks would consist of mostly nights etc. Or simply just not allow the player to join if they aren't suited.

Your poll is a bit biased, but it doesn't matter IMO because I agree. Daggerfall and Morrowind had much better system for guild advancement than Oblivion

Of course. It wouldn't make sense for someone to be the head of the fighter's guild and not even be able to lift a sword. :poke:

I know, 22 unanimous votes has to be some sort of record :tongue: . And that certainly sounds like it'd be interesting, as well as sensible.






And these are all excellent ideas! keep posting!

Hmm. A MW vs OB thread. Never seen one of these before.

Neither system worked perfectly.

In MW you had to reach certain levels, which promoted multiple playthroughs with different character types.

In OB you could progress through the levels without any restriction. This catered to the player in a good way. I dont want to become a mage, but I DO still want to do the questline for the Mages Guild. It gave you the freedom to do what you want. You didnt HAVE to grind for level increases in skills you never use. It didnt limit players from beating every aspect of the game on a single playthrough, with whatever play style you wanted.

And honestly, to me I dont care if I make it to archmage or not, I just want to complete ALL the quests they have to offer. So if that means I get to do all the quests, but can never be 'named' archmaster, who gives a crap. But I shouldnt be forced away from the mages guild because my character doesnt fit the standards, or isnt mage enough.

Personally I like the idea of some sort of requirements, yet not quite exactly what MW had. Its a great idea though even if it has its flaws. As for ruining immersion, I dont even take this seriously anymore. That is the comment EVERYONE uses to describe ANYTHING about the game. Its lost its appeal, and is meaningless now.

Boycott 'Immersion' Thread coming soon

Daggerfalls advancement was based purely on skill levels and reputation, you didn't even need to do quests.

Morrowind had it right though.

i garantee you if the no option didnt have the archmage crap it would get more votes.. what you guys are missing is that if that was true then we would be a hundred in all the skills of stealth, magic, and combat. if i play a stealth character i still want to be in the mages guild and fighters guild and complete the quests in my own way.. if we do it the way where there are requirements then for the last mission we are probably gonna have to be a master in whatever skills the guilds specialize in.. i dont want skill requirements

you really got to watch out for these things now a days they'll sneak right up to you making less sound then a cotton ninja

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Jeanne_Frasoric
Ah, this thread again, the perfect time to mention politics, flattery, bribes, brown nosing, back stabbing and being in the right place at the right time, all time honoured methods of advancement for those without either skill or a clue.

You do bring up a good point. I've edited the poll to more match this view, as you aren't the only one to bring it up.



Poll edited to make it sound less biased. as more than one person has mentioned it.

As much as I loved playing through all of the guild quest lines in Oblivion, I have to agree that it didn't make sense that I could become the head of the mages guild when my magic skills were low. I play more as a warrior and use magic as a suppliment where it is needed (destruction spells for combat, charm spell, etc.). I hope they do have some form of guild requirements in Skyrim. Maybe you could still do some of a guilds quest line to gain rewards and increase your reputation with that guild but not necessarily advance with in it.

If I remember correctly, Skyrim will also have some random quests, so that'll smooth out some of the kinks in MW's system.

Though, I would also like tests to be taken to have the guild make sure you are ready for the promotion. Example, I know there is one MG quest in DF that you had to unlock a magically sealed box in order to be promoted. Wouldn't mind seeing challenges like that in Skyrim in order to receive a promotion.

I want skill requirements, didn't make much sense when my warrior, who his highest magic related skill at 21 was the leader of the mage guild.

i dont want requirements but i don't want to be able to be the head of the mages guild if my mage skill is awful.. does any one have any ideas?? the only one i got is having requirements but making them reasonable so instead of needing a ridiculous 100 in all magic skills to be the head you would just need a 50.. something that would make noob players work harder and RPG aficionados wont be affected

Yes we do need requirements to achieve rank for each guild. IN OB I achieved master in the Fighters Guild without having any fighting skills. I believe you have to work on your skills in the Thieves Guild but the others you don't. My daughter achieved arch mage and master in the Fighters guild at Level 3 (Remarkable but broken IMO).

I would like the guilds to mix in some random quests along with pregenerated quest.

Yes! Please put this feature in Bethesda. I miss the days when you couldn't do everything in a single play through in rpgs. It made no sense for me to be head of the thieves guild despite never using stealth, or to be the head of the fighters guild when I had never picked up a weapon before.

I stole the eldar scroll with heavy armor equipped and a sneak level of novice.

Any who I didn't like the guild requirements in morrowind I think there needs to be guild related mission instead.

I'm surprised more people aren't using the "if you don't want to advance in the guild so quickly, then just don't. it's optional" argument.