I think most of the guilds in Oblivion needed improvement, if not all. The Dark Brotherhood bothered me the most - in Morrowind they were assassins that were specially trained and killed for profit, whereas in Oblivion they turned into cultists and anyone who happened to murder someone else could join. That bothered me.

And I agree that the Blades aren't really a guild. In Morrowind, Caius explains that most of the operatives report directly to the Imperial City, iirc. And in Oblivion they all just walk around Cloud Ruler while you run in and out fetching things for Martin. I don't think they'll be much of a presence in Skyrim either - I'm pretty sure it was explained somewhere that the Blades are scattered and in very dwindled numbers from the last game and that Esbern is one of the last ones. I feel like it would be pointless to be inducted into the Blades again if they barely exist and the Empire - which is what they are designed to serve - is in shambles.

All of the guilds need longer and more interesting storylines. "Go here, steal/kill/find this" lost its appeal quickly.

I would add the Morrowind Guilds, but since I never really played that I don't really know them. If someone was to give me a list, I would add them

Blah blah it's been said before, but I really really loved the Houses in Morrowind. Something along those lines NEEDS to return. Like in the form of clans or something, that would definitely be suited for Skyrim.

Well for starters joining one guild should effect your eligability for candidacy in certain guilds, for instance the thieves guild has no place for a cold blooded murderer who is a member of the Dark Brotherhood, sure they share some of the same skills however one would assume that those who would join the Dark Brotherhood have a penchant for murder where the Theives Guild has a strict no killing policy, thus any members of the Dark Brotherhood would be considered too violent to be considered for membership in the Thieves Guild.

Secondly guilds should have tasks more in line with the theme of the guild, in Oblivion most of the Mages guild tasks revolved around dungeon crawls and fetch quests that required little to no use of the skills that one would expect a mage to have, even some of the later thieves guild quests devolved into dungeon crawls with the Grey Fox even waiving the blood price so that you may kill as you please effectively nullifying the need for stealth.

And thirdly less linearity in guild progression, probably a minor point but it would be nice to be able to pick and choose your contracts and the order in which you do them with more contracts opening up as your rank increases.



Am I the only one who finds noble assassins a tad cliche? An Assassin is little more than a hired killer, there is nothing noble about it. However I do agree that perhaps the Dark Brotherhood took it a bit far, the Dark Brotherhood is a bunch of murderers and psychopaths given purpose through some hokey religion however it would be nice to see a group of assassins who take up Skyrim's dirty jobs out of necessity and for coin rather than the fact that they are sick bastards who enjoy killing.

I think each guild should have an opposing guild and they come into conflict with each other so of course you may only join one or the other:

Mages guild - Necromancer guild
Dark Brotherhood - something like the morag tong or maybe a special strain of the guards
Theives guild - the guards or maybe rogues who steal for themselves
Fighters guild - a rival mercenary guild like the BW company

You have to realise dude many series dropped important features as they crossed over to next-gen e.g the jump from san andreas to GTA: IV then Morrowind to Oblivion.
Also @Agent Grey the Dark Brotherhood DID have a god who visited and was tangible so...

First sorry to hack your post up.
It's just I agreed with most of what you posted and had nothing to add to it, no offense meant.

It depends on how you mean noble tbh, the DB were bad, evil it was made pretty obvious about that in Morrowind and Oblivion.
I don't think organised assassin groups should ever be good, however I believe that a fair few would see themselves as noble in intent.
Lets kill those that oppress us with stealth and secrecy is a noble goal, let's do it just for evil is not.
Your example is another one.
The Morag Tongs state sponsored killings another, not good, not evil just their idea of keeping balance ( whether this holds up to reason or not. )
The Ahzirr Traajijazeri yet another.
I agree Skyrim's assassin guild needs to step up a bit, and hopefully have some link to the events of the MQ rather than a solo chain of quests.

Well, it would seem that the DB are returning going by the heavy hints by Bethesda

Well, I'm pretty sure the Mages Guild has been destroyed....
So, I don't think they'll be coming back. :sadvaultboy:
There are some competing factions to take over its place-- like, the College of Whispers.
This is all in the Infernal City, I think....

Yes I posted Assassins guild out of caution, as a generic catch all.
To be more clear ( if that's possible for me, as I fail all the time. )

If the guild that is in Skyrim and is of a mindset to kill others for reasons other than self defense or war.
Using various but often underhanded means.
No matter what they're called, whether Dark brotherhood, morag tong or Jimmy's shivs..
There should be some detail beyond we kill to kill, it's our love in life and we're eeeevvviiilll.

In the end of each questline there should be infinite random generated simple quests like for
Dark brotherhood: A list with names and location to kill (These should also be random generated names and characters)
Thieves Guild: A list of Rare stuff collectors will pay for With location for you to steal (These should be completly useless random generated items)
Mages Guild: A list or board with known necromancer locations and mayby location of scholars that need assistance
Fighters Guild: Random generated areas with bandit folk that have captured slaves or stole something or small monster appearance thats troubleing people
(Like that did in Fable 2 ( Slave rescue and Mercenary Quests ))
Blades: (This is not a major Guild but i try...) A list of people intrested joining the Blades and you need to test them (not very good but meh...)
The Arena needs only little improvements: There should be team deathmatch available, Several gladiators all vs all (FFa)

I think they have to contestualize most guilds. If I'm in Mages Guild I'd be probably considered a wimp from a Fighters Guild member, and/or is highly probable that they would make use of my assets instead of sending me to the same lame Quests of every other big [censored] skull-crushing Orc. Hell after all I can make a Minotaur blow way from 100 feet away without even being detected, and i can heal quickly an injured member, why non using this abilities?

Of course a Fighter would look a dumb sword-weaver to a Mage so it's entirely possible that being a Fighter you wouldn't be able to advance very much in the Mages Guild. So different paths in the guilds based on the other guilds you are part of.

It would also be nice if you won't advance much if you don't meet some sort of quality standard (seriously, an Archmage with an average of 30 in the magic schools?).

And, please, MAKE IT USEFUL. Teach me some spells or effects I cannot have in any way if not a member of MG, teach me fighting skills to be proud of if I'm a fighter, make me the ultimate assassin if in the DB etc...

I also endorse the idea of different related factions, for example a faction in the MG which prefers Destruction and Alteration, as opposed to a faction which prefers Alchemy and Conjuration, structured as that someone in a sub-faction has real differences from another in another faction. Different questlines and so on.

Also, I'm a wizard, so you, puny merchant or puny highway man, shouldn't mess with me as I can haunt you for your entire life and afterlife. And probably no clever highway man would attack a well-built Fighter, or a dark looking man (assassin), It's simply stupid!

I have always thought this....

I think you SHOULD be able to be a member of certain guilds at the same time, like the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild, because obviously no one outside of the guild should know you're a member. But if you continue with either guild's questline, someone would tip them off that you're a member of the other guild, and you'd to perform an act of loyalty to the guild you wish to stay in.

eh....if you only played Oblivion, I'll be lenient with you, but only this time. Frankly, the Thieves Guild of Cyrodiil is nothing more than a bunch of glorified Robin Hoods. In Morrowind, you were sent to assassinate people at points, namely members of a rival gang and some of their supporters. Various books in Daggerfall had interviews of TG members stating clear as crystal that they will break a freelancer's arms and hands, along with informing to the guard about the freelancer. Oblivion is the odd man out, the others had no qualms about using violence, save for when you are doing a job that involves stealing. Reason being, if you murder someone while on the job, the guards will make the guild's life much more difficult.

But you are right that join certain guilds makes it harder or outright refused from other organizations, and not just the whole silly MG vs. Necros or BWC vs. FG kind of crap

Agreed, and part of the solution would be having certain skills at a certain level, in order to gain ranks, other than doing quests.

Agreed

Don't let crap get in your eyes, the Morag Tong are hardly noble assassins. If anything, they're regulated assassins, and even then they will use "gray writs" to knock off targets certain people do not like that are under the "do not kill" list. Frankly, if they were allowed to run free, the Morag Tong would be just another Dark Brotherhood, except you would have to put up with LOTS of Melphala worshipers, as opposed to a wider variety of assassins whose main concern is money.

Also, when it comes to factions and organizations, I plea that people remove themselves from OB and look more towards Morrowind. Sure, there were organizations that opposed each other (Telvanni and Mages Guild), but there was less "evil guild vs. good guild" (that too many people are proposing), and much more organizations that like others, neutral with some, and hated others. So, while the Cammon Tong and Thieves Guild were against each other, the Fighters Guild could either exterminate them or not (depends on which route you took), and the Thieves Guild could get the help from the Fighters Guild to take down the CT and ask the MG for hired muscle.

My main character in Oblivion was a thief/assassin type character that I custom-classed as a Mercenary.

The thieves guild has a strict no murder policy while you're on contracts from them. What you choose to do outside of those contracts has no bearing on the guild. If I break into someones house with the sole purpose of getting loot to sell off to my thieves guild fence, I can murder anyone in there with no consequence to my status in the guild. It's only during the contracts that you can not kill anyone.

I'd like to see joining the Legion come back, and I'd like to see greater guild presences.

The Dark Brotherhood never had much of a presence that was in game: aside from a few random guys that wandered Cyrodiil and the Cheydenhall Sanctuary, there was nothing else. Also, there were no cornerclubs for the Thieves Guild to hang out at, and asking S'Krivva what I should go and steal next while standing in the streets of Bravil just kinda felt... stupid (and wouldn't be suspicious for you to keep walking into a fences house to sell stolen goods to him?).

Seeing random escort groups of the Fighters guild, Mages guild research labs and teams set up at random sights trying to find a shiny new artifact, Guild thieves breaking into random houses and taking something nice (which respawns every 3 days or so), and hearing about a guy you met two days ago being assassinated by the Dark Brotherhood, and sure enough you can find the dead body being investigated if you hurry. THAT would breathe a LOT of life into the guilds of the game.

It just seems that the guilds need to have a strong presence in the gameworld, even more since Skyrim is now in a time of civil war, you would expect the guilds to try to get a stronger foothold and support any friendly factions in a bid for more power in the province, or just to insure their survival.

For the 39 people who voted the blades to be improved sad to say thay no longer exsist the last blade mem is your teacher on dragon slaying

I really think that if there is an arena, it should be improved, with bigger and harder fights. The arena was easy money for me in Oblivion, and also once you are champion, there should be people challenging you. I also would like the idea of a good and bad side to each subject in guilds. Like fighters guild and Blackwood company, or mages guild and a necromancer guild etc. That sort of thing.

Great post. A lot of good ideas.

The new assassins guild should have quests to murder essential characters.

I'd like it if there were opposing guilds - like a mages and necromancers guild (though not sure on the lore concerning these in Skyrim sorry), or the chance to join a vampire clan or a group of vampire hunters.

The Fighters Guild was probably the weakest out of all of them imo. Storyline just wasnt that good

This pretty much sums it up, but Mages Guild could be better. It was great in Morrowind, but in Oblivion you were this chosen guy, and i didn't like that

Well, something akin to the Blackwood company that was in oblivion.