Howdy wastelanders,

I know that the choice to join a faction and work your way up is already implemented in TES. I agree that they did a really bad job in it. But what if it was done correctly ???

"dramatic music"

What if we had the choice between being freelancers (as we were in 3 and NV) or really join the ranks of faction and work our way up.

How to do it right:

1) joining the ranks has consequences: if you join the ncr you would immediately be branded an enemy of the legion. While if you do freelance jobs for the ncr you would be hated by the legion but they would realize you're just in it for the money and they would try to buy you in there camp in stead of impaling you.

2)you can only rise to a certain rank: it would not make sense that they make you the new president or even a general ... I would say you would rise from soldier - corporal - sergeant till lieutenant or capitan MAX (which would give you some advantages, couple of soldiers to be taking with you on quests)

3)the world reacts to you ... if you are a freelancer they would see you like one ... if you join them then you would be really one of them ...

what do you guyz think ... If it's done right ... it enhances the roleplayoptions ... but is it worth the devtime? maybe not ... discuss

i like the idea. Maybe every faction has a ritual you can do to become a member. Khans would beat you in, NCR would have you do some paper work, Brotherhood would Knight you, Followers would idk hug you or something, Legion would give you a machete and house would just ask. Your a freelancer until you receive that ritual.

Maybe have a Mercenary or "myself" faction and the more jobs you get done the more competent people will think you are and would hire you for more dangerous stuff. Maybe if you do minor missions for the NCR the Legion wont hold it against you, but if you do something Major they would kill you on the spot.

but if that were an option it should be always avaliable after you complete the needed tasks so you can chose when you want to and not be forced into any faction say in nv if you join house certain ncr quests will be looked like the one for contraras think I spelled that right for the this machine

I'll always be a gun for hire. Sure, I may be more expendable, but I don't have to necessarily abide to a factions rules which means I can get my job done any way I want. Plus, high profile factions will shell out quite a sum of cash for successful contracts which I can spend as I please, as opposed to a faction giving me free food and standard issue equipment.

Aside from that, being a mercenary has always been one of my dream jobs. I like danger.

Yeah, getting up every day early for muster is going to be real fun. Press F to do jumping jacks. Press F to do push ups. And then the shooting range. And let's not forget the fascinating eight hour patrols in the desert, staring at sand and shrubbery while sweating under layers of armour in 36 degrees weather. Oh yeah, and getting shot for desertion if you wander away from your posting is going to be real fun too! Cleaning latrines, weapons, digging fortifications, and listening to your Sergeant's lengthy rants about your maggoty nature is really, really fun too!

An Army isn't the Call of Duty "KEWL I GET A RANK AND GUN LOLOLOLO" drivel. It's a strictly regimented organization where soldiers are placed in a certain framework and are expected to follow orders. If you join the army, you can't wander off for kicks, as you'll be put under arrest (best) or shot for desertion (worst, during wartime).

New Vegas approached it in the optimal way. If you aid the NCR, you are essentially a contractor that works for them. You support them, but aren't bound by the chain of command and don't have to experience all the wonderful things I listed above.

Blackwater is always looking for fresh meat http://www.howtodothings.com/careers/join-blackwater-mercenaries Ignore what it says about Military / Law enforcement backgrounds, my friend worked privet security and he got in. Keep in mind that you might have to kill a civilian or two "not joking". For example Black Water had signs in on a makeshift border that said stay 100 meters or be shot. Some kid threw a soccer ball and the dad went to get it, he took 1 bullet to the head. This is one of the stories i was told. You have to be morally grey to work as a mercenary.

That's my problem with Blackwater. They're kind of bungholes, sort of like the Talon Company of real life (who I suspect are based off of Blackwater). I know the risks of going freelance, but sometimes I think that's the only way to keep your morality intact. One of my friends actually had a friend who was doing freelance Mercenary work for various governments, but he got killed a few years back.

you make it look ridicolous this way. Just see it as another path you can take in roleplaying that opens new quest that are otherwise unavailable and with the previous mentioned results ... respect, new gear, new followers ... would it enrich the game if it involved good quest (maybe one cleaning quest as a joke but good challenging other quests)

if you join the regular army ... USA or any other for that matter ... you are also morally grey ... is patriotism good enough reason to kill another human being ??? even a soldier ??? There are enough pragmatic reasons to say yes ... but morally ... murder always remains gray ... nazi soldiers in concentrationcamps also said they were just following orders

my condoleances ... I would like to now more about blackwater and start a discussion but I think it's not allowed

You have to keep in mind that those Nazi soldiers were brainwashed.

Joining the army is about serving ones country to protect it from danger, so that your freedom is secure.

Are you suggesting that killing somebody that has the potential to kill innocent civilians is not justified?

I can understand how joining some other armies might be morally grey, but the United States army doesn't intentionally kill civilians, unlike Blackwater. If you kill a civilian in the US military without a just cause, you get thrown into jail.

Yes, I make it ridiculous because the suggestion that you should be able to join a regular army, but not be bound by their rules and regulations is ridiculous. You're either a soldier or you're not.

In the real world = YES, in videogameworld = not necessarelly ... it's a game, not a simulation ... so with a bit of imagination we're fine and it would add to roleplaying imo

I am not against army's on a pragmatic level. They are needed in todays world (and since the nature of mankind is quite destructive they will be needed still for a long time ... if not forever )

So killing an evil dictator or massmurderer is justified and needed ... but it remains a shade of grey ... killing an enemy soldier doesn't make you a good guy ... he also had kids, a life and fought for what he thought he needed to protect ... to use the nazi example : is it right to kill someone who was brainwashed or are they victims themselves in some way ..

Well, did they try to kill you first? Because if they did, they weren't asking themselves that same question of honor, and where does that enemy soldier's morality lie? You can never really know, and all you can do as a soldier is hope that you are on the side with a more just cause.

Well... It doesn't need to be realistic, but it needs to be believable. If you're joining an NCR-esque faction then you probably shouldn't be doing it as a soldier, but under some other title/function.

Even a game has to have internal logic. If you're joining an army, then you should be folded into their chain of command and be subjected to following orders. I'd have no problem with an Arma-esque spin-off focusing on the NCR, but an entire game devoted to that?

Depends on the faction. In New Vegas, the Followers let you join because you help them out a lot, and it just makes sense. The Brotherhood is known for recruiting outsiders who do a great service to them, which is why they let you join in New Vegas. I can't remember, but I think you can join the Great Khans. I don't quite know the circumstances, however. Point is, it just has to make sense, and while New Vegas did this better than Skyrim, there really wasn't much else to do with the title you receive. Some gear, a safehouse, and then nothing. Some extra quests would be nice.

I think that allowing the player to join the Ranger and Frumentarii would have fit, too. Some couriers in New Vegas basically do things like a frumentarii would anyway. If they added more Legion quests, it would have been perfect. Rangers are less ragtag than in Fallout 2, but the nature of their responsibilities could fit with the courier. Throw in a ranger-related quest arc and keep the basic NCR plotline, and I think it could have worked.

Basically, they should apply this concept and add it when it fits. If the faction is like an army and you wouldn't feasibly have freedom to roam, then it wouldn't work. Each faction should have some sort of arc if you join them, but not one that results in you being their leader in 3 days.