Agreed. Even with the Dwemer explanation as to why they are there, it would feel so out of place and it would no longer be The Elder Scrolls to me, but rather The Elder Guns

I agree with SubRosa on this. If I want guns I just pop in Fallout 3 or just about any other game.

Crossbows = guns ? Do you all feel that they're not there for the same reasons?

I think they took crossbows out of the game for Oblivion because the animations were too complex, and they had to rush the game. I think spears disappeared for a similar reason. (I'm not talking about the shooting animation; I'm talking about the rewinding between shots.) There's a surprising amount of 3rd Person animation in Morrowind that didn't carry over into Oblivion, either because the weapon was removed, or because the combat animation (as in sword thrusting) was simplified.

I think I remember reading Bethesda took a lot of time trying to get bows & arrows to work in Oblivion, and that they wanted to get them as perfect as they could, rather than adding a bunch of additional weapons that couldn't be animated correctly. They didnt' want to spread their talents too thin, in other words.


DLC? You mean like a mod? Or is that an official DLC from Bethesda on PC? SOrry, I'm always asking you questions, I know.



Blunderbuss. I forgot all about that word.

My main tabletop game back in the day (The Fantasy Trip..similar to DnD) had blunderbusses and some other type of crude guns. They could do a lot of damage, but the thing is they took a LONG time to load and reload, and the further the target was, the chances of actually hitting and doing damage fell quickly. I forget how it worked, but it wasn't like a modern gun at all, where you can possibly shoot several times a second. The fact that they were so inefficient took away their more obvious advantages.

And that's the thing. Usually when folks ask Bethesda to put guns in TES, they're wanting something modern. A revolver or an AK-47. Something like that.

The robot is a official dlc from bethesda.

Probably. An instant kill with infinite bullets. Like Wizard's Fury.

On PC right? Sorry, I know I can just go on PSN's Store when I get home, but the anticipation is killing me.

x

I think I saw it on the steam workshop, but didn't get it. I don't want something like that in my game. Looked a bit like an Eyebot if I recall correctly.

Yes, if we're talking about something like an AK-47 then I agree with what everybody has said so far. I would hate those in the Elder Scrolls universe.

That said, I wouldn't use even a late-medieval-era firearm if they introduced it into the Elder Scrolls universe. I never used any of the guns in WoW and I've played many Hunters (the main gun-wielding class). One of the main reasons I don't play Fallout 3 is because I don't like to play games that require me to use a gun. I don't like guns. I've been shot at in real life and it's not as glamorous as it looks in Hollywood movies. It's frightening. So I wouldn't use them.

That that is a separate issue, in my mind, than allowing other people to use them. It's a single-player game. I would be free, hopefully, to use some other weapon if Bethesda included guns in a future title or DLC. Personally, I thought Japanese weapons like the Katana and Throwing Stars were hugely out of place in Morrowind. I still cringe a little when I see the word Katana in Oblivion or Skyrim. It just doesn't feel right. It just doesn't feel like it fits in the Elder Scrolls universe to me. But I don't object to the weapons being in the game. I just don't use them, that's all. I'm glad they're there for people who want them. I feel kind of the same way about blunderbusses.

oh my god, man. I would never think it's glamorous. I've never been shot but a long time ago, I was in a trailer with some other people. We were doing something not very legal. Fun, but not legal! At some point somebody put a gun on the table. Just casually. He didn't aim it or anything, he just put it there. It was a handgun of some sort. Even that was enough to scare the hell out of me. I remember standing there, kinda petrified. I just wanted to get out of there but feared that any sudden moves could.. ...

... I don't know, be misconstrued or something. I didn't know these people (other than my roomate) at all, so just having a gun jsut appear like that was enough to freak me out.



Throwing stars and katanas are okay. This sort of stuff (naginatas, whips, bolas, etc.) was in some of my tabletop games long ago. It works for some characters who like using unconventional weapons. Anything mechanical, though, anything modern and mechanical, especially, would make me facepalm!

(keep in mind I speak on a national "big-war" scale. Early rifles would be pointless for the individual adventure)

Because not everyone has an affinity with magick, despite everyone "starting" with a spell which is purely game mechanics, as we see by the fact that not all NPC's use spells or have large magick pools. Spells as we see in-game are quite pricey, and it takes a few Flares to kill anything bigger then a mud-crab, so guns would be a cheap, mass-produced substitute that could be given to the poor masses who can't "buy" (and when I say buy, I mean they don't have the time, money or intelligence to do so) a strong spell, while any peasant can be taught how to load a simple rifle, aim it, not at a specific person, but simply at a mass of enemies and pull the trigger. Where you can train a thousand peasants to shoot 2 shots a minute in maybe a month (if not less) for virtually no cost at all and having no real value on the life of a simple peasant of whom there are thousands more, it would take considerably longer to train a single wizard with sufficient skill to be able to do enough damage with magick in each spell and to be able to continuously do it in battle without running low on magick not to mention it would likely cost more and therefore you likely would be more hesitant to lose such an expensive and time-consuming asset who has not only had money sunk into them for the training but is a member of the middle and upper classes, because as I mentioned, the spells are not "cheap" and we know magick takes a certain amount of intelligence to be able to do so consistently and powerfully.

That could've been a lot clearer if I wasn't doing homework...

Like I said, I don't have much of an inkling to see guns in TES, but when people say pull out the "well magick is there so why bother" argument it bugs me. But since we never see the "big-war" aspect in TES games (as it should be IMO), there is no need to have them in game.


How is a simple matchlock any more mechanical, then say, the moving "elevators" in Oblivion Gates though?

Because all people play with magic.

There are many forms of firearms that could be made to fit the game.

Some of the dwemer robots have pneumatic swords which use steam pressure to stab and retract. Now if you chop off the sword, and add a tube, you can put a pellet in there and fire it like a modern BB gun.

A different variation could use the same mechanic for a repeating crossbow.

An alternate type of firearm can be whats known as a caster gun. Its a gun that uses magic shells that fire magic spells instead of projectiles. Perfect for those who like to get the effect of magic but don't want to actually USE magic.

Both options can easily fall under marksman.

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I didn't mean you personally.

I have met people who get too much of their information about the world around them from television, movies, video games and certain types of music. These people can be extremely ignorant about guns...and violence in general.

There. That's what I should have said. Anything modern and mechanical. Modern Earth technology, in other words. Were the elevators in the Oblivion Gates mechanical, though? They could have been magical. I'm asking only because I literally don't remember these elevators, not 'cuz I'm trying to make a point.

In my opinion, a lot of things in TES (and other games) can be explained as magical. A lot of the lights and fires which stay eternally lit, some of the traps, etc.


So have I.

Here are my two septims: Firearms wouldn't even fit in Cyrodiil. Look around you, they haven't discovered the tech yet. There is nothing in Cyrodiil that shows that even the faintest notion of the technology exists. Sure sure, you guys WANT weapons, but they don't fit. They fit in Fable 3, for example, because that game is set during the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. Get yer shooter fix from your shooter games.

Would guns (or anything like them) be a part of lore?

I don't think I've read of any rifles or pistols but it wouldn't be that far fetched. Fairly certain I've read of cannons being used in naval battles and there was the dwemer automatons at Bamz-Amschend that shot darts at enemies.

There's also the dart-shooting traps in the Fort dungeons. Hard to imagine them working without some kind of "gun" mechanism.

How could I forget those? I had so many adventurers meet their demise from them. Probably subconsciously blocked it from memory.

Staves, that even a goblin can point and shoot are close enough for me.

Seriously, my loyalty to gun-free medieval fantasy RPGs exceeds my loyalty to TES. That is, the introduction of guns into Oblivion would send me in search of another game.

It would be one of many mods that I steer clear of.

Where do the goblins get those staffs, anyway?

They make ′em and power ′em with the help of their shamans

Well, shooting darts does not require gunpowder, which I think is integral to what most people consider to be guns, as opposed to crossbows or other contraptions. As far back as Alexander the Great people were using large siege engines like the lithobolos and katapaltai to throw missiles. Not to mention the gastraphetes, which was their precursor. I do not think anyone would mind things like this being in TES.

The big hurdle with those dart shooters in Oblivion's ruins would be the insanely fast reload time they have. The Chinese had a repeating crossbow, but even it could not keep firing without reloading for as long as those things. Not to mention their ability to continue working after four thousand years. I suppose we can only put that down to magic though.

Yup. That's magic. So are the giant block traps that mash their victims in Ayleid ruins, the sliding grate traps, swinging blades, etc. That's the way I see all this stuff, anyways. Magic.

They sound to my ear as if they were powered by compressed air, like a kind of automated blowgun. A blowgun would certainly not be "modern" technology, but, as you say, the reload time...

...Maybe there are daedra bound inside the pillars, loading the tubes and blowing the darts through...