Seriously ? We are stuck with the same technology for the next millenium in TES lore ? Wow, I have to read more of this :hehe:

The history of TES is only ~4000 years, and not much as really changed in terms of technology. The only thing that really has is that metallic armor is more prevalent than hide armor. Pelinal's armor was considered very futuristic during his time in the first age, and the dwemer were the only ones that also really had any grasp on the concept of metal, to the point they could disguise themselves as robots and no one could tell them apart until they removed their armor.

You see, it took about 3000 years to get to where we are now in terms of metallic plated armor. Those who were it really were considered to be extremely important or special, like god/god-like special, or an emperor.

Dyviath Fyr himself was born about 200 years into the first age, so if there was going to be some really old and really smart guy who could think of some way to make technological advancements, it'd be him since he is a person who is very interested in dwemer, and is someone who would and has collected the strangest and rarest bunch of relics this way of Tamriel. But he hasn't. And this guy lived during times where the shenanigans that Mehrunes Dagon pull just recently was nothing out of the ordinary.

Or it could simply be one of the many pacts the various "deities" have made.

Example: Haskill talking about how the door to the shivering isles doesn't threaten Cyrodiil and therefore is "legal".


They could have simply chosen not to share technologies as powerful as guns as part of a contract.

No, no, no, no, no, no, and no. We would have seen such tech. once we were in SI, . The contract was made specifically so that daedra won't walk in and out. MD broke it, because he's a [censored], but the other princes seem to honor it. No, his door was only there as an open invitation, as mentioned in that very same speach. Mortals can enter and leave as they please, daedra can't interact with it at all, let alone use it.

No. No, no, no, no. Because once your in SI again you have no need of guns. Because your the madgod, you can make people INSANE. Why would you want guns? If you agreed to a contract to not give mortals such things then why bother giving it to them when in your realm? Why would you care? Also most of the daedric weapons are simply symbolic, given to champions when they do something for a Prince, and being symbolic, don't you agree that a sword or staff would look cooler than a AK47?

Your reason of why my idea is wrong doesn't make sense.

Also the Dwemer did make some things like guns if I am not mistaken.

...Then why did you even bring up the idea that daedra are secretly hording guns in the first place? And like I said, if they had secret stashes of guns somewhere, that would have been revealed to you in SI . And if they did have guns, why don't the guards have them in SI or any of the daedra there in fact? The guardian could also have had a gun arm instead of a giant blade, since that dunmer was one of Sheo's most liked scientific mortals in SI. In addition, if the daedra had such technology, MD surely would have used them (assuming they're better than a flintlock rifle) when his daedra minions were pouring out, especially also in Battlespire. Personally, I like guns more than medieval weapons, but this has nothing to do with TES.


No, it makes perfect sense, since SI is a daedric realm, filled with daedra, doing daedric things,


They made steam powered dart guns, that cannot work without a full robot's ability to create said steam. Not to mention no one really knows how to construct such a machine, and can only repair existing ones at best. So no, you can't walk around with the arm of the archer centurion and expect to make any use of it, because it can't work without the robot to produce steam, whom only Sotha Sil seemed to have been the closest person to reach that point, but is dead and secluded himself from everyone and never revealed his secrets to anyone, even his best friend Dyviath Fyr. Even the best minds of dwemer studies still cannot reproduce what the dwemer have done, not to mention are able to translate all text.

I never said the daedra were hoarding guns. Who says the Daedra don't already know how to make them? And no, it doesn't make sense, if it is your realm you can do whatever you want, and if you were a daedric prince why would you care enough about your followers to give them guns?

There is no tactical advantage to you so, again, WHY WOULD YOU CARE ABOUT GUNS OR MORTAL MACHINERY WHEN YOU CAN KILL PEOPLE WITH YOUR MIND??!??! It's obvious almost all daedra can cast magic fireballs and whatnot, many mortals can too, why go to the trouble of making a gun when it would depend upon ammunition and whatnot when you could simply learn the art of magic?

You said "They could have simply chosen not to share technologies as powerful as guns as part of a contract. " This would mean the daedra do have the technology to make guns, and that means they could use them too, just as long as they don't share it with mortals.

Also, why wouldn't I want to give my minions guns? If they're that great, I'd have armies of daedra with guns, instead of charging like an idiot and hoping they make it towards the enemy. It's not like they could kill me with a gun in the first place. I personally would not need them, but my followers sure as hell could use them. In fact, why have guards in the first place, or a weapon, or guards with weapons, or anything for that matter if all it requires to kill someone is my mind. The fact is, not all daedra use magic as a primary means of killing. If that was the case, MD's army would have been a lot of armored mages, or the guards in SI would be the same. In fact, all daedra would be nothing but really, really powerful wizards. But they're not. A lot of them still use "physical" means of killing. And really, your whole recent argument is a giant fallacy that I have no idea why I am arguing it, because your entire premise is way off.

Also, I gave other examples of why daedra don't have guns, because Mehrunes Dagon's armies would have employed them too, and not just in OB, but also in Battlespire.

Magic>guns.

Its simple, guns just aren't as effective as magic, so why bother?

which in turn means magic>bows, crossbows, and sword. This is true, for a master wizard. Noobs and even decent mages still run huge risks of spells failing or blowing up in their face. So while magic can potentially be a lot more powerful, it is also a lot more dangerous. Not to mention not everyone is adept at magic or doesn't want to use it, because it requires a hell of a lot more practice and studying. You should keep in mind for any given civilized land, there is going to be 1 mage for every 10 or 15 people at best in a large city, so there aren't many mages in the first place. And it's not like every mages learns destruction as their major. Some take the other paths and learn magic in that field. Plus, the only organization that uses offensive mages is the Imperial Army and the Order of the Lamp. Yeah, there are some magic in the MG that are more focused in the art of destruction, but not every mage is.


While true, not everyone is good at magic in the first place, so there is need for other means to kill people with, which is in the form of a sword, bow, and crossbow. I see that you also agree guns just don't work, but your reasoning is heavily flawed, and I am trying to correct that.

Hmm... a lot of good points. It might work in Warhammer... but allright, perhpas not in the current TES lore :shrug:

It does happen in TES. There are accounts of mages accidentally teleporting somewhere, but end up where they didn't want to, naked no less. There's also issues where conjurers had their "servants" break free of their will and wreck some things or kill their former master. Experiments going horribly wrong, and hell, there's spell chances (except in OB), so it's not like you could fling spells willy nilly as long as you have mana, there's the chance it does fail, and becomes even more increasingly difficult if said mage is tired. Learning magic does require you to be of sharp mind of will. If either lack, you won't succeed as a mage.

Anyone can pick up a bow and shoot it, or pick up a weapon and swing it. Not everyone can cast a fireball, let alone safely. Unlike in WH where you head could literally explode, or you go bat [censored] crazy. In TES, it can end up backfiring, not working the way it was supposed to, there was an error, or it flat out doesn't work if something goes wrong.

no

That was my bad on saying spell when I meant to say potion, because that was what I was talking about previously.


Once again, these responses just make my day.

Hmm...not sure about potions, should check that myself.

Well, there are no potions with any radius effects, I was simply saying that potions are like napalm instead of explosives, because they do not knock you back, and only light you on fire.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I think it would ruin the game

Well now...











But I think it's an improvement since the last thread. :hehe:
Well, with the exception of few people here. :shifty:

Admittedly we did discuss it slightly more than usual, i am ashamed of myself :cold:

Hmpf... I would say a lot of things about this kind of behaviour. But I see you have an Icewind Dale character in your avatar so the respect goes slightly higher in this case .
But seriously, what's so bad about having an discussion about this ? I mean, when you delete all those 'Nooooo' useless messages (and mine included), you could have a decent and interesting discussion about possible guns in the TES lore. And one less reason for mods to lock this up.

Open-mindedness, dear Watson.

Personally, I sincerely have no idea at all why this is even considered.

I play a TES game when I'm in the mood for a game with swords and sorcery. When I'm in the mood for a game with guns I play a game with guns, just as when I'm in the mood for a game with cars I play one with cars and when I'm in the mood for a game with spacecraft I play one with spacecraft.

There are already more than enough genre options out there-- I don't see what can possibly be gained by homogenizing them. It makes no more sense to me than trying to get shields, claymores, lightning spells and minotaurs in the next Grand Theft Auto.

Well considering how most people just really enjoy going all crazy, i suppose that this discussion would still be pretty enjoyable without all the 'noooooooo's, but then again, having a discussion about guns without bringing up the darth vader noooo, just isn't right

You know, there was a game called Myst III: Exile. It wasn't as good as the other games in the series, but what made it really stand out from the other Myst games was that, near the end, you did something that angered the antagonist so much that he uttered this now-famous line:

"No...no...no no no...no! No! NO! NOOO!"

This, more-or-less, sums up my opinion on guns in TES. I will admit I don't have a highly logical argument to throw at you, it's just a matter of preference - it separates TES from most other fantasy games, and one thing I find really cool about Tamriel is how so little changes in the way of technology over the centuries.

Its a behavior which center the mere fact that they just don't want the feature in the first place. Its a stab feeling and will not hesitate to say no because they do not want it in the first place. If ya do not like how this kind of answers goes, then this ain't ya place to stay.

Sometime, even the simplest wording have the biggest meaning, and its just to the point of answering the topic. And as history shown quite well, "interesting discussion" in a Gun + TES topic tend to be fruitless, mainly those for it. Its just end up in an argument of two or three person at most, with many NOOOOOOOs on the side.

And please be aware there is a level of "Open-mindedness" when it comes to any discussion here in the TES General Discussion. Its like saying DOOM should just change the whole setting from Hellish to happy sun shine and have guns that shoot bunnies and holding hands or change Mario into a sadistic, foul mouth gunslinger to get a whole different audience, or even make Fallout take place in the Middle Ages and remove all weapon and add in swords and magic. Could any of these happen? Of course. Would the game be the same? Not really. Would the fan want it that way? I don't think so.

Basically, its this. We play TES because it offer us the enjoyment of a Magic and Sword RPG. Adding something very different into the system would change the series to something that is not. If they want to something else, then there other games that offer that gameplay. Play those instead.

Dwemer artifacts could be acceptable. Perhaps the skyrim area could have dwemer ruins or some other indiginous miner race creating crude and bulky technology as steam and available magics combined to power and drive their homes. These places could harbor a firearm or two.

Innitially I was opposed to having guns in the next tes game but, I remembered my time in morrowind. There were instances when I thought a blunderbuss or flintlock would fit the location.