They are called staffs. Wand if ya wanna get tiny.


Ya did not really follow the M'aiq the Liar quite well and end up enmassing argument on both sides instead.

And what kind of "RPG" is like that of what ya said? Transforming from Sword and Magic to adding guns?

And the thing is about TES is that it is own universe, not by following other thinking it would be "cool". It change in respect (or lack of) within its own boundaries.

And those without magic usage, like I said again, a whole variety of weapons that can make anyone happy. Get to the main weapons of what I have in mind, crossbow.

If a staff could empty all of its charge in one shot for massive damage, it would be the same, and very awesome, but it is not, so the gun idea is still rather sound as far as gameplay balance IMO.

As was said before, Fable 2. World of Warcraft.



Where on earth did you get this? When did I ever say that guns should be added because they were "cool"? And why do you continue to follow this train of "well I don't guns because they're cool and I don't want the people who think they are cool playing my game"?



And yet this ignores the question posed. What's wrong with technological advancements, even in the world in TES?

Which is the functionality of the staff to begin with. Its shoot things. If it want to be useful if the charge ran out, bashing things as well. As far as "gameplay balance", it would be much more prefer able if the Dev stop assuming everyone uses Bow and Arrows and bring back all the other Marksmen Weapons that exist earlier ie throwable and a crossbow.


I do not really view Fable 2 as a RPG per say and the fact that many suggest gun just because "Fable did it", not to mention it that of the Victorian era like, not medieval-like. WoW is more of an MMORPG then a Single RPG, as to mention that in their lore, guns already exist. The Lore of WoW is not really begin an RPG part to begin with. RTS is more like it. I just diss any idea that just because other RPG did it mean TES should too.


Its goes along with the gimmick. Adding thing just because it is cool and everyone does it.

Simple. Technology did not advance at all. And progress would be in the hands of the Dwemers, but they are now gone, and that assuming if they even want to create firearms.

I agree staves shoot things, but they do not use all their charge at once, and that was the only point I was making. And like you I welcome the reintroduction of crossbows and the like.

It can if one make it. And I do not really see the point as to relate to "adding" gun just for that. If its one time shooter, then scrolls is your best friend. Or just craft any item with that magic.

Let us not forget, that even in our own real world it took around over 100 of years before someone in China had the bright idea to put the exploding powder they were using for fireworks into a pipe, with a metal ball inside and light said metal pipe with a bunch of exploding powder and a metallic ball inside.

Away from that, dwemer had no technology with guns, and they're the most advanced civilization by far. Current dwemer experts still have a huge problem of translating the more hardcoe dwemer writing, and only very people have an interest in studying dwemer. In fact, most dwemer experts do their research as a hobbie, not a total study as much as you can. Only Sotha Sil got that far, but he was on a whole different level, and was completely absorbed into his studies, city, and project (literally too). The closest thing they got to guns was robots that shot darts from their own steam power that they generated.

If you want guns, ask for crossbows.

Already did. ^_^

And on to what you said. According to some you cannot relate the real world history to TES, so the whole china development is rather pointless to many.

As far as Dwemer go, you're right they did not develop guns, and no one really understands their writings and teachings, but as mentioned previously, guns do not have to be Dwemer based. Any group of people with a lack of magical prowess could develop a weapon as powerful as spells without the years of training, or magicka pool, to overcome their enemies.

So the literal genre of the game dictates what makes sense in context of lore and the world itself? Way to split hairs.



And again, not ata all answering my question. When have I ever said we should add it because it would be cool and that everyone else does it? You speak as if you assume I want this for flashy reasons.



And this circles around back to one of my original points: we are going to doom those who don't use magic to mediocrity? And what about what you said above means that present races can't make technological advancements?

Gun powder also seems to be in really short supply

No when I desire a FPS RPG I play FO3

No way! I do the exact same thing.

In its own respect, its own lore. The Lore is the basis of its own reality. I like it grow from here, but not by adding random junk while in the process.


Then again, this is adding guns we are talking about. I am pretty sure that people want guns because it is cool and ignore any logic as to why gun does not exist in TES to begin with.

Doom? People without magic still able to defend themselves quite well with the weapon they have at that point; after all, there not that many mages to fight against other then the rouge mages. I doubt in a long run that there will be any "technological advancement" with chaos flying around after the Oblivion Crisis.

Guess what, not everyone can use magic effectively and safely. In fact, a realistic population had about a wizard for every 10 normal people. OB definitely did not portray it right, but magic is a dangerous thing to wield. There have been many quests, journals, and in-game hints that inexperienced mages often cause more harm than good at times, such as a scamp breaking free of the wizard's control or a fireball exploding inside or someone's face. Not to mention you can fail at casting spells.

So, us regular folks, who wear tennis shoes or an occasional python boot, must depend on bows, crossbows, darts, knives, and throwing-axes as a way of hitting someone from a distance. And the best part, there's a really good change a fireball won't blow up in our face when we try casting it.

Guns do not work for TES.

NO

I love these types of responses, they make these threads worthwhile.

guns is what killed fable 2 and guns are going to kill fable 3 when one of the weapons is a machine gun cleverly nicknamed the ripper. (Joke at fables weapon naming system)

Asking for a gun in TES is like asking for a crack rock in a police department.
It aint gonna happen, and if it does someones gonna go to jail.

What? You disregarded Fable 2 and World of Warcraft because you don't consider them RPGs.



I don't understand where you come from. So because some people would consider having guns cool and would see no other merit, that eliminates all other reasons for why one might see guns as plausible?



Game mechanics don't demonstrate well the fact that a magic user will almost always win against a warrior.



Why not? Because there's no need for a emperor of the Septim line anymore?



You've only furthered my point.

Guns don't fit, at all.

Partly, and partly they are NOT follow the TES Lore. They have their own Lore. TES have theirs.


Its called gimmicks.


That assuming if that mage is out to battle random people, or the mere fact there many mages to begin with to be a threat in a local area. Its usually mages fighting each other if that were the case. Beside, how does one even know that ALL mage is that powerful, or even assume a mage can alway win a warrior or anyone in any situation? They can just shoot flare and ran out of MP within seconds.

Not further, more against. More like the empire is going to a dark ages at this rate.

And what point is that for this? That comment hold many thing against the point ya trying to said.

But that's not the point. The point is that other games have made it work, and there isn't any reason TES can't make it work in the future.



Then you're arguing against me for no reason. I'm telling you that I can see guns as a valuable addition, and you're just telling me it's a bad idea because other people want it as a gimmick.



What do you propose, then? We assume all battles begin with both combatants in melee range? Also realize that Oblivion does not have a good representation of magic. A key point would be teleportation, which would make your point moot even if we assumed your assumption is true.



This should make even more reason for more advanced forms of firepower.



Just like after both World Wars we reverted to Feudalism, yes? As far as I can see, after Mehrunes Dagon is defeated, most infrastructure is still intact.



My "further" comment was in reference to Hellmouth. In the future make sure you reference each quote properly.

How? You keep saying mages are too awesome, and that bows and crossbows cannot compete. I'm telling you that is a wrong way of thinking how magic is. There are not many mages at all.

Fable made it work by removing many things that would consider to be an Aspect of Sword and Magic RPG. I do not want to see it go down that road, just to add guns. WoW did it because Warcraft was a RTS and have game units that have Dwarves with musket to even out the range unit in the Human side. Its defiently not RPG to begin with.


Because as simple as the answer is it is a gimmick, just to add to attract other players. And adding gun would hurt the atmosphere that we called TES. Its not valuable addition. Its just changing the franchise to something that it is not.


Oblivion was not really a good representation of magic or melee at that point. And teleporation is just a way anyone is not prepare for battle. If mage even know where to teleport or knows the spell or even have mana enough for it and teleport away, he lost.

What? Because they lose Mana points? Please. Ya have to stop assuming all mages are that of PC league. They are not that powerful or numerous to be a threat to even it out with "Guns".


No, the handling of the Empire with Picard dead will surely destroy itself with rebellion and warring states.

I do not even know what ya quote. Quote and requote then.

He did, it was my paragraph of why guns are not foreseeable in TES.