Thatoneguy, you never cease to amaze me

Emmers. I see you looking. No guns!

I don't think that gunpowder weapons would be overpowered. They weren't historically, they won't be in TES. I don't think they should be in the game, though. It's a nice idea to have some hints of gunpowder, or maybe even cannons (and hand grenades - they were used in the Crusades, they'd be brilliant to have in the game), but not guns.

Naptha or Greek Fire in TES? I could stomach that.

Cannons have been mentioned in books and, according to some, a character in Redguard used a pistol. Other than that, I'd like guns to stay out and this topic to take the child killing route. That is, not able to be discussed anymore.

I think muskets and the like would be okay
but they would have to be Uber weapons and hard to find

I seriously hope that you were being sarcastic :stare:

no I am not

feeling that I am gunna get lyniched (spelling ) by hardcoe tes fans

but they have fire balls and the like, why not a musket

I'd rather have no firearms in Oblivion, even if Lore could somehow allow them.

At most, I could tolerate one as the equivalent of the alien gun from the Fallout games. There is only one in the whole game (alien in Fallout / refugee from a gun country in TES I guess) and no more ammo than what you get with the weapon, so you can't play the whole game with the firearm

^ yeah there would have to be a restraint on the weapon, cause well it would turn in to fallout with all the ammo

Muskets weren't actually that powerful. It depends on the terrain, of course, but they weren't as useful as bows, historically. They won't be that useful, if they are in the game.

BLUNDER BLUSS just remembered that one that would be good in killin those Mlord's

Some kind of a dwemer shooting device that's hard to start...hmm I like the sound of that.

But sadly, there are only a few open-minded people here. I mean in the FO3 section, there was a thread about 'Magic in Fallout world' and it hasn't been bashed with such a hostility like here. I am totally disgusted of how are people going elitist lore-nazi on ideas like this. Eh.

TES uber fans are just too hardcoe

I think that the open availability of magic would be a preventing factor in the development of gunpowder, especially considering how totally useless early firearms would be. This would lend itself to the creation of very basic firearms that would be weak, inaccurate, and more dangerous to the user than the target. Since it would not rapidly outpace the usefulness of magic, I imagine it would not ever develop past this stage meaning that "guns" would be both few and pointless.

Perhaps you should re-read the past 4 pages to discover "why not."

Abandoning modesty for a brief second, may I suggest my own posts? http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=1041436&view=findpost&p=15099666 and http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=1041436&view=findpost&p=15100776


So not wanting guns in TES because of stylistic reasons and well-documented lore reasons makes someone a hardcoe lore-nazi elitist?

Very well. I can live with being a hardcoe lore-nazi elitist. I might just engrave it upon a plaque and place it on my mantle. :trophy:

Quite a turn of event in page 4. Kudos on ThatOneGuy and UnknownK.


Concept of such tool might as well not exist at all at the time. Placing such weapon out of nowhere into the game recreate such unbalance to the game lore and and wasted usage of resource just to do it. I suggest ya go to page 4 on this and read on some of the comment there why it will not work that way.


Here the catch, Fallout and TES ain't the same Fan-base. What ever happen in that bubble does not intercept on the bubble here; not to mention FO3 was quite unsettlement by its own fans when it was first release.

And there is a different between "open-minded" with the content of its own reality and "open-minded" of randomness.


If ya do not like how it is handle here or how it goes opinion-wise into the topic, then this ain't the place for ya.

Alright, for the sake of avoiding being called an 'elitist lore-nazi' i say we should give the people for guns a chance (not that it will matter much :hehe:) however you keep saying the reasons why they should be, (however we have admittedly beaten you at every turn ) so come on, show us why this strange idea which has never been implemented in the TES series should appear, try giving reasons which would take us more than a couple of minutes to break

PS

Kudos yourself Qawsed, you pretty much fought the war single-handedly :tops:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO



Just kidding, i belive that if 5 thieves try to kick your ass, and u knock out 4 of them, the last one must be killed on a freaking style with a small pistol, also if they are implemented that means that the damage in the head will be different of the damage in a leg, and that would be awesome with swords too.

Pro?s: Coolness, different damage.
My mind:
Contra?s: A gun do not completely fit with TES, at least with the 4 TES that we have.



By the way i?m talking about this type of gun ---> http://www.historical-firearms.co.uk/acatalog/DX1091LClose.jpg

ok first off.... wheres rohugh and the other mods? are they taking a vacation???

and second off, guns are slow, too slow, too weak.

heres a little comic:

musketeer: oh **** a necromancer!!! cummon cummon load load!!!

*necromancer shoots 5 fire spells 5 frost spells and 5 shock spells*

musketeer: ok, die!

*musketeer gets hit by bullet*

necromancer: did you just shoot me with an elfs eye?

musketeer: no...

BOOM musketeer gets his head eaten by the necromancers zombie


not much of a comic but you get my point

I wouldn't mind a spin-off of TES, with a hundreds/thousands years of difference between the main games timeline (think KOTOR and SW movie eras), where you could have the technology vs magic struggle a la Arcanum, but the eventual TES5 is probably best left alone... The unavoidable power struggle within the Empire due to the death of the Septim family line is too juicy to pass up, so TES5 should pick up where Oblivion ended.

while I don't see gunpowder or guns ever happening in tes, I think its quite possible for magickal weaponry shaped like a gun to exist. (as shown in my fan-fic, the final days)

Reasoning:
1. a mages staff takes time to create, lacks any obvious means of activation, and I doubt the average soldier has the magickal fortitude needed to activate and properly handle one.
2. Soldiers would still benefit though from a frictionless projectile launching system (that's what a mages staff is, after all) that would greatly exceed the range of their bows.
3. if they could develop a means of mass enchanting assembly line style, they could mass produce enchanted gun-shaped weapons at comparatively low cost.
4. A magic gun is:
a. easily activated via the trigger.
b. All it requires is training in how to aim and handle the weapon.
c. The projectile is frictionless, meaning they don't also have to learn how to account for the wind and other environmental factors.

I would like mushroom gatling guns. Oh yes.

Just because conditions allow something to happen does not mean it will happen. It may take several such periods before someone has the ingenuity to develop a firearm. Or it may take a rather extreme form of isolation and lack of magicka to inspire such an invention.


I would consider the fire damage potions more of a napalm type concoction than a bomb, because when there are explosions you get knocked back, and there are times in the game when you get knocked back by magical means, like in SI.


I remember having a discussion about this and I believe that man and mer are more creative than the Gods, and is why the Gods have not created a gun and is also why Daedra love to interact with mortals; they are so unpredictable.


I would like the inclusion of primitive hand grenades.


Glad I'm not the only one.


In my opinion you haven't broken many reasons at all. So go back to trying to break the old reasons. You know you want to! :nod:


I thought this discussion was rather civil so I see no need for the mods to involve themselves.


I also like this. :hehe:

I can completely and totally understand if one doesn't like the idea of guns for personal opinion. Qawsed didn't do this. In fact, even when I prompted him, he told me he wouldn't admit that it was just his personal views.



The entire time he was calling guns "gimmicks". I don't think the request was too unreasonable.



I just hate it when someone continually states their opinions and facts, and then doesn't bring anything to the table.

I'm going to finish off by saying this: I wouldn't care one way or another if they decided to implement guns. It would have to be done in a totally tasteful manner, but I don't see how it directly violates any lore. My point wasn't to compare the socio-industrial developments of Nirn and Earth, but to give some plausible thought into the occurence of guns. But bringing narrow-minded, elitist, or exclusionary thoughts to a debate without even supporting them just doesn't belong. Even if guns are completely and entirely improbable, that doesn't mean they wouldn't be possible. I don't see how any part of lore says guns or even advanced technology in general cannot exist. And like I said in a previous post, it all has to do with how long the following Eras are, and where TESV is placed in the timeline. Obviously if TESV just takes place a few years afterwards, the chances of guns being developed, the chances are incredibly slim. But what if the Fourth Era is as long as the First Era was? Why disqualify any technological advancement? This discussion should really come down to what the OP was asking: "Guns in TES 5?", not whether or not they belong in the TES universe, because that alone is a loaded topic.