The skill is gone not the punching.

Another useless skill bites the dust! :celebration:

Pathetic, it just proves that they ARE dumbing down the game. :banghead:

And what about pathetic civilians who try and take you out with their fists when you kill someone? how will they have any chance at dealing damage for an attack with no skill!? does this mean no disintegrate weapon either? :swear:

This means, no drunken fist fights in taverns?

They meant the skill.. not the punching. For those who STILL don't understand.
Anyways..
I don't need it... It's the same thing like with acrobatics and athletics: Sooner or later you will punch!

280 perks = diveristy :teehee: all the characters will be different


Why all characters in Oblivion where the same endgame

because all skills can be leveled to 100 :teehee:


that has not changed for Skyrim read the Playstation mag thread, says it in the info so far


that and Perks repeat as well -apart- of the 280? and you think each perk will be drastic and game changing?

yeah diversity my eye.

Man, I liked this skill, hope there's some alternative way of using it as a main weapon.

It doesn't matter if H2H was effective overall. It's freedom of choice; if you feel like going toe-to-toe against several heavy-armored and armed guards then so be it and gods speed your way to an early grave. My Nord barbarian pugilist in Morrowind managed to beat down two Imperial guards in Ebonheart before he was run through. Any way you slice it, its a continued lessening of a game series if H2H is indeed taken out entirely.

There are no useless skills. This is a silly statement. Useless skills do not exist.
Skills that can be better implemented, yes, but saying something is useless is just very short-sighted and bound to upset people who liked it.

Can't say it bothers me much.

I'm surprised that people still want Hand To Hand in but I'm not surprised that BGS dropped it. I'd be pretty disappointed if my favorite skill were to leave the game. It's a good thing though but how they are going to incorporate it into Perks is beyond me, Paralyzing Palm Perk maybe but then people will say "That's too much Fallout".

Hand to Hand was all but removed in Oblivion

I dont understand why people think that perks will have everything that is removed. I dont think so.
I fully expect us to have one run speed and jump height the entire game. Wich is annoying and a bad decision.
I also fully expect there to be no H2H skill whatsoever. Id be surprised if we could even punch people.

Things that are removed are just that. Removed. Perks are tied to skills. I doubt perks will do miscellanious things that used to be in the games but got removed.

I coouldn't care less to be perfectly honest. It was a weak game mechanic, and I'm glad to see it gone. If people liked it/will miss it then I'm sorry to hear that, but removing it has allowed Bethesda to add/implement new things that are just simply better in my opinion. If forced to chose between having a hand-to-hand skill or the improved horses/New Bounty system/Improved crafting or any of the other confirmed new features then I know that I would rather have. It's a game of give and take, there just is not enough disk space for absolutely everything so unfortunately sacrifices have to be made.

When everything is said and done, the skill is gone but the ability to punch people (and hopefully damage their stamina instead of their health) will probably remain.

I'm interested in seeing what skill has replaced it on the combat skills list. Getting rid of a useless skill to make way for something better is a step in the right direction in my book. If you don't agree then that's fine, but I'm entitled to my own opinion just like you are.

Way to overreact people...
No more skill for punching people -> THE GAME IS LINEAR NOW!!!

And this is why we won't have it, because they couldn't make it like that. Just lame punches, until the other dies...
Same with crossbows and spears really...


So how are attributes better in this part?

i had no desire to play with swords in morrowind and oblivion. in morrowind it was tough, but still i liked it. in oblivion i was soooo happy. it was still underpowered, but they saw the light and tried to improve it. you learned cool moves and you got more powerful and it even had status effects...just like everything else! but now that they are removing it, why should i stay? there's nothing extreme about my statement. i came for the unarmed, without it, i don't need to stay.

I didnt say a peep about attributes, as Merari said, peolpe think Perks are replacing everything thats not in.........when they don't freaking exist in game in the first place

That was to bad i liked Hand to Hand.

Stop whining! Here you want a :cookie:

Sure you are entitled to your own opinion.
However, you are not entitled to present as fact that a skill is useless, wich you again did.
It was not useless. Useless skills do not exist.
It is also terribly silly to state that removing the H2H skills = horses and all that jazz.
That is just the most silly thing I have read today, it does not make sense.
Skyrim is not a zero-sum.

Yeah, me too. I don't give a heap of dragon dung about horses, bounty or crafting. But I would never parade around saying it's useless. :facepalm:

I think H2H is a useless skill though... Oh [censored], I just did it again!



I said that there is a limited amount of disk space. Features that are removed equates to more disk space to better implement new features. Nothing silly about that really. I never said that H2H removal directly results in better horse mechanics etc, just that it frees up disk space with which to add those features.



Good for you. I was perfectly content to leave things be, but seeing yet another [censored] storm being kicked up on this forum because such a tiny thing was removed from the game irritated me. Yes, the skill is gone but that in no way means we can no longer run around punching things.

The real problem here is expectations. People were expecting a totally new hand to hand mechanic that incorporated athletics and acrobatics, giving it a very martial artsy feel. I believe there was a thread to this effect a few weeks back. People did not get this and are now [censored]ing and moaning because Bethesda are 'dumbing down' their fantasy life simulator' ... :facepalm:

No, you didnt do it again as this time you used the qualifier 'I think'

About freeing up discspace for other things. Hmm. I dont know much about mechanics and electronics so I dont know if disc size is an issue. I know it was in Oblivion, they had to cut a lot of dialogue.
But Im also told that this time around the technology has improved to the point where that is no longer an issue.
Maybe you are right, I do not know.

I don't think it's a size issue (though it might be), but a time one.
They just don't have enough time to make them really good, like with different kicks, grabs, blocks, counters and I don't know what else people has been asking.

Say what you want about CoD, but even though they are short, linear, and not very intuitive, they still took years to develop them. Skyrim is supposed to have ten times as more with only twice as much time to develop it...

Ahh, okies. I see your point now. Yeah, I do sometimes forget to put 'I think' in front of everything since I feel that that I write is obviously just my opinion anyways. Never meant to imply that it was a fact that H2H was a useless skill as that is obviously just my opinion.



Well, I'm not a huge techno buff myself, and if what I said is wrong then I'm fine with being corrected. Beside having egg on my face it wont be too much of a big deal. I know the audio compression technology has improved, and they can make better use of the disk space on a DVD but there is still, unfortunately, a finite amount of disk space that can be used.

Maybe that's the reason why it was cut, or maybe they just did not want to have to think up 12-20 perks for it *shrug*

It could also boil down to a time managment issue, since all the designing and animation would obviously eat up a chunk of time.