I'm sure we'll still be able to punch. It's probably tied to stamina and/or health.

It would've been awesome if they had changed hand-to-hand into "punching" instead. So you can have a shield/spell/sword in one hand, and you fist in the other.

There's a 1 handed skill.

Hand to hand isnt a one handed weapon......


I;d be much more at ease if they said Hand to hand is now Unarmored...or something........

good point its a two handed weapon. :whistling:
I do hope its still around, my dummer monk is really gonna svck without it. (won't be a monk)

If it wasn't near useless (at least pretty difficult) to use in MW and OB I know I would have used it more.

Well my monk character just went right out...
I'm sure a mod will come out eventually and I wasn't planning on making a monk first but that really is sad to see them cut it. Yet another feature they'd rather just axe than improve. I'll just enjoy the hell out if it in Oblivion for now, they'd better compensate by making this the best game ever!

same, i loved the idea of hand to hand, but they must had a reason to cut it, maybe the figured it would take to much time and effort to fix it to where it was playable? and maybe they tried and it failed lol.

But I still hope it makes a return in future TES games.

I think hand to hand would have worked better revamped and buffed rather than simply removed. Yes, it was of little importance, and never really has been, but with a bit of time and effort put into it you could turn it into a decent skill to nurture as a player. As I said in another thread, the ideas of sneaking up behind enemies before quickly and quietly dispatching of them with a swift snap of the neck or even grabbing a hostile's wrists to disarm them and leave them prone to attack with their own weapon both sound pure awesome.

I never used it as a main offense. I mostly used it simply to toy with encounters that I already outclassed.

Indeed. There was a lot they could have done with it. Simple mods that change the damage values of fists to be on-par with daggers and up the fatigue damage per hit actually fix H2H completely for Oblivion and keep it a viable combat style all through the game. And there are a few mods that add the ability to channel on touch spells to H2H to do even more damage.

It's just a shame that their new line is "If we can't get it perfect we'll remove it". At least with the broken H2H in previous games it could be fixed with mods, but it's much harder to add something that there is no framework for at all.

Hmm I've never roleplayed the hand action (pun intended) - guess I'll have to save it for the older ones.

I'm hoping hand-to-hand falls under "One-handed", so you always do more damage with a weapon (If as a hand-to-hand master, by applying the concepts behind your hand-to-hand training to your weapon. And if a weapon master, applying the physics of armed combat to hand-to-hand), with perks to allow your Hand-to-Hand style to surpass your "Armed" ability.

Hand-to-hand perks should still be usable as long as you have one free hand, to keep the game from getting boring by removing all interest in weapons.


And hand-to-hand should not be a 2-handed skill (No, not even for the pun), because Hand to Hand is using your hands independently from each other (In 2-handed weapon combat, both hands move with each other). In the past, it was dual-wielding your fists. Hopefully it will also include dual-wielding your boots as well this time. Also, it allows you to pair it with another weapon, as either an off-hand opportunist weapon, or a main-hand weapon with punches as a quick backup.

What I do know is that the Bethesda fanbase is a resourceful lot (especially on PC, I might add), and eventually someone will come along and manage to program all of the good [censored] that's being cut back in, even if we have to wait a good few years until that happens. What I'd like to see is a large-scale mod that manages to turn Skyrim into an actual RPG, along with being a straightforward action game as it seems likely to be. Not being able to run around snapping spinal cords isn't exactly what I mean by that, but this theme in development that seems to be going on (removal of content, simplifying, streamlining, consolisation, call it what you will) as a whole definitely makes it seem like this will go down the same path as Morrowind to Oblivion, further away from *actual* role-playing games and closer to psuedo-RPG action games. Not saying I'm not extremely hyped up for Skyrim's release.

I don't care how good you are at hand to hand combat, you are NOT going to be able to beat someone wearing armour wielding a shield and sword. The removal of h2h seems like a choice made for realism if you ask me, so I dont mind at all. And I'm saying this as someone who used it a lot in Oblivion, mostly because I thought it was funny that I could beat up daedroths and such with my bare hands

Steel Gauntlet

High strenght

Vs armor

doing the same thing a mace can, plus im not always trying to kill my enemies especially in missions that require you to NOT kill anyone other than intended targets ala Dark Brotherhood on MANY occasions.........

and thats just the punching people not mentioning how they could go farther with kicks throws and grabs....armor what? utterly useless with my fists of steel

Bruce Lee disagrees. In real life (Yay for knowing how to apply blunt-force trauma with your own body) as well as fantasy(Ever heard of Wuxia? Why exempt that piece of awesome?).

If you come against me in heavy armor and wielding a sword and shield... not only can I beat you, but YOU ARE ALREADY DEAD!

And, in TES, it's particularly jarring to have it completely gone considering an entire race is built around that combat style. Hopefully the Khajiit will get perks that have them use their claws as viable 1-handed weapons.

I'm wondering what would happen if i Disarmed an opponent and then took his wep before he could pick it up. Would he just stand there like a fence post as i beat the crap out of him, or will he run away, possibly in search of another weapon?

just because h2h is out doesn't mean hand fighting is out.

having it as its own skill with it own perks would have done it justice, they could have had perks for all of the different fighting styles. Now Im thinking the only H2H in Skyrim will be like a linear, last line of defense move when your weapon breaks/is disarmed, opposed to somthing deep that you could actually build a character around, like in the past.

the way i look at it is fist fighting is probably still in by this logic: athletics is out and it governed running..... we can still run / and acrobatics is out and we can still jump.

but in your logic we cannot directly effect any of those ala FO3/NV Running speed and jump height was static....now H2H too? :down:

Do we know Athletics and Acrobatics are out? Or have they been merged into a new thief skill?

And I hope it doesn't mean jump height and run speed are static. They've never been before, and Acrobats are always the most fun class to play!

Discussion of cartoon characters and avatars should be in Community Discussion.

If the discussion stays on Hand to Hand combat, this can stay open. If it derails, then its closed.

There is no theif skill and by words of Todds, they are out, not merged, not under the hood, they are out plain and simple :shrug:


because

who makes a character that runs? :facepalm: i swear the reasoning for these actions borders on...something not pleasant.