Hand to Hand Removed... Thread II

Post » Thu May 19, 2011 2:20 am

You may not be the 20th but that doesn't make you any more accurate then the last 19... Perks aren't in h2h becuase it's not a skill, why the f would it be one handed when in that case one can still equip a staff, then what? What am I leveling then? Two handers?


These notions aren't even a day old and people are taking them as fact :lmao: like really:.. It said h2h is no linger a skill full stop. That's it, nothing less nothing more. Sure we will be abl to punch, but it's not a skill, think of it like running and jumping in fallout 3

I'll wait when there is concrete information to go on..
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BethanyRhain
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 4:05 am

You may not be the 20th but that doesn't make you any more accurate then the last 19... Perks aren't in h2h becuase it's not a skill, why the f would it be one handed when in that case one can still equip a staff, then what? What am I leveling then? Two handers?


These notions aren't even a day old and people are taking them as fact :lmao: like really:.. It said h2h is no linger a skill full stop. That's it, nothing less nothing more. Sure we will be abl to punch, but it's not a skill, think of it like running and jumping in fallout 3

Sure we'll be able to swing a sword, and we'll be able to swing an axe, but they're no longer skills.
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Prue
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 1:07 am

Actually they are they have there own perk trees Unsder one hander and two handers
I.e there are perks for all one handers and two handers and there are perks for weapons independent of that under their respective types
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Miguel
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 9:35 am

You may not be the 20th but that doesn't make you any more accurate then the last 19... Perks aren't in h2h becuase it's not a skill, why the f would it be one handed when in that case one can still equip a staff, then what? What am I leveling then? Two handers?


These notions aren't even a day old and people are taking them as fact :lmao: like really:.. It said h2h is no linger a skill full stop. That's it, nothing less nothing more. Sure we will be abl to punch, but it's not a skill, think of it like running and jumping in fallout 3

I'll wait when there is concrete information to go on..


Not being represented as a skill does not mean you can't improve it. That's the main thrust of most counter-arguments here. "Blade" isn't a skill either.

Actually they are they have there own perk trees Unsder one hander and two handers


Exactly. So why assume that the same won't happen for H2H?
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Nina Mccormick
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 3:57 am

Because

Why would I be equally proficient in swing an axe(one hander) when I use a sword (one hander) you do not swing an axe like a sword you do not fight with an axe and act like it's a sword..
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Jonny
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 12:22 am

Well then what skill will have such perks or such perks will be scattered between many skills?

My personal guess would be one-handed weapons, to me it makes the most sense that if H2H doesn't have it's own skill it should be treated as dual-wielding one handed weapons.
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Alisha Clarke
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 6:39 am

Because

Why would I be equally proficient in swing an axe(one hander) when I use a sword (one hander) you do not swing an axe like a sword you do not fight with an axe and act like it's a sword..



Dude... you completely don't get what I'm saying to you, do you? This is what I'm saying:

Skill: One handed
Perks:
Sword
Axe
Mace

Skill: Two handed
Perks:
Bows
Claymores
Hammers
Hand to Hand



That sort of system would work just fine. Just because "h2h" isn't a skill doesn't mean it won't have a perk tree just like blades or axes or bows or any other fighting style.
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TASTY TRACY
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 5:36 am

You may not be the 20th but that doesn't make you any more accurate then the last 19... Perks aren't in h2h becuase it's not a skill, why the f would it be one handed when in that case one can still equip a staff, then what? What am I leveling then? Two handers?


I didn't say that? I said that there will be perks for fighting unarmed, not the other way around. And I guess it's two handed.

Fighting unarmed with one hand doesn't quite make sense, since you always need both arms to land a good punch.
Holding a sword in one hand while punching with the other looks [censored], I don't think that will be possible.

Anyway, along the lines means it's still a guess. Never claimed otherwise.
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Tyler F
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 5:03 am

I'd like to remain hopeful it's part of one-handed combat, just like every other weapon that only needs one hand working individually at a time. If one-handed combat covers dual-wielding, it can also cover Hand-to-Hand combat.

One-handed combat then have too much in compare with two-handed
There is no reason Hand to Hand combat should be integrally part of Acrobatics and Athletics, even if they do want to give it Wuxia potential. Not everyone who's fluid, mobile, and graceful in combat only uses their fists (See: The Prince of Persia). Likewise, not everyone who only uses their fists in combat is mobile and graceful (See: Theldurin the Lost, from World of Warcraft. He punched Deathwing in the face)

I hate say such things but there is perks for thats, Martial Arts is body skills and training, what form of training you choses by self, the same as used for make difference between maces and swords in one-handed or two-handed, both skilled characters in Martial Arts are do increased damage in combat but way how they do such damage is different, as well thats goes to protection from damage someone can withstand hit due training while someone can dodge hit, just like parry and block is separate action, ability for longer and faster running and longer and higher jumps as well are traits of trained body such things are really need since both attributes and skills what govern such features before are removed, so merging them with Hand to Hand into Martial Arts skill is logical way to keep their features but remove grinding from them, since we actually need take actions for training, not just running and jumping.

And for those questioning the logic of "Who would use hand-to-hand combat against an army of guys with swords"... Well:
a.) Chuck Norris
b.) Bruce Lee. (Or, he would have)
c.) Mr. T
d.) Captain Falcon
e.) Mario

Good examples there especially Mario :biggrin:
But as you can see ability make high jumps and make some Falcon Kicks work in synergy

The Elder Scrolls take a fantastic take on Hand-to-hand combat, just like they do with weapon-based combat (Otherwise, hand-to-hand would feature more and be less isolated from armed combat, as takedowns, kicks, off-hand haymakers, grabs, locks, and other unarmed abilities are used in conjunction with weapons).

Thats will be interesting to see but how thats can be implemented in game?
For example control wise.
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lolli
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 4:28 am

You'll still be able to punch, just not beat people who are using swords with your fists.
That was always silly anyway.
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Olga Xx
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 11:39 am

Perks for H2H will be in the double handed combat skill tree, I almost guarantee it.


Already answered: One-handed combat.

Two diametrical different solutions

In case I'm not the 20'th person who pointed this out:

HtH has been replaced by perks, just like every other weapon skill.
It's nothing we didn't knew already.

Now we have one handed and two handed, each with a perk-tree branching out in several specialties.

It's something along the lines of:

-one handed: weapon, shield, dual wielding
-two handed: weapon, bow, hand-to-hand

Archery is confirmed as separate skill, blocking also why hand to hand must be merged?
In such cases all two armor skills also must be merged with blocking into one skill.

You'll still be able to punch, just not beat people who are using swords with your fists.
That was always silly anyway.

You can dodge their strikes and then disarm them cripple and takedown, think beyond just silly punches.
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Vickey Martinez
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 9:26 am

Archery is confirmed as separate skill, blocking also why hand to hand must be merged?

Because it's been confirmed that it is no longer a skill? :shrug:

[edit] unless you are complaining that it should still be a standalone skill, but I didn't think that that's what we were talking about. I thought the topic was that H2H is still in the game even though it's not a skill.
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Tracy Byworth
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 5:38 am

Sadly the question seems to have been removed, but I still remember it was about H2H combat.
At the time I was quite sure his response was sarcasm. It sounds like they have something in mind for H2H combat without giving it its own skill. I'm not sure.

Also, there was a vague post by vsions in one of the eariler threads that suggests we will be able to fight with our fists.
I hate how every new Skyrim article raises more questions than it answers!


Considering what we know about how weapon specializations are being handled its fairly logical to assume H2H would be handled the same way. Probably tied to One Handed skill with its own perk tree along side swords, axes, etc...

As usual this seems like a lot of fussing other nothing.
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liz barnes
 
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Post » Wed May 18, 2011 11:42 pm


Devs by self like H2H combat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5zVawg-J-w&t=4m15s


/all threads on h2h.

If the devs seriously didn't improve it, then whatever. They themselves enjoy hand to hand kinda crap, and if they didn't include it, that's stupid, but what can you do? Faith in BGS until I get the game and when I try and hit people, it's lame.

I want to role my monk though. I've wanted to role a serious monk since MW. MW was the only game I liked being a monk in and it wasn't that great. Here's to hoping Skyrim improves hand to hand instead of seriously just cutting it.
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kiss my weasel
 
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Post » Wed May 18, 2011 11:28 pm

just because the skills been removed doesnt mean we cant use it theres probably perks to enhance it under another skill
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-__^
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 4:25 am

Because it's been confirmed that it is no longer a skill? :shrug:

[edit] unless you are complaining that it should still be a standalone skill, but I didn't think that that's what we were talking about. I thought the topic was that H2H is still in the game even though it's not a skill.

Well topic is names as
Hand to Hand Removed...

three dots at end allow various discussion I believe, as separate skill H2H looks much better then as merged more details and features can be added, while as part of different skill it reduce variability of perks thats better suit for such skill since there is limited number of perks for each skill tree 15 perks per skill in medium and there can be skills with less or more perks as well this value include all perk upgrades per skill also, if H2H still in game which skill will cover it?

Oh well I can see heavy and light armors merged into one skill (but not the armors types just like sword and maces in one category of one-hand weapon skill but have different properties what greatly change gameplay) when perks describe difference between them even medium armor can be done in such cases, but all who wear armor will have increased protection with skill while how well he move sneak cast and fight is depend on perks from specialization, thats logical like Warrior thats trained armor skill and invest into light armor perk tree will move and sneak with less penalty but when equip heavy will not have such ridiculous penalty to protection instead he will feel uncomfortable in wearing it movement and attack speed will be reduced, sneak will have great penalty fatigue usage for actions will be increased, in such cases there also as part of Martial Art skill will be unarmored damage resistance and acrobatics, Martial Art skill will train from successfully avoided damage form received damage and from inflicted damage to enemy, at leveling player will decide by self how distribute perk points thats come from Martial Art combat experience, to withstand more damage by resisting it and taking part of it into Fatigue or by dodging it with acrobatics thats also use fatigue, or move faster in combat next time to increase distance and use different weapon or magic with less fatigue usage on such actions.

From such skill all specializations will take advantages so as well as all hybrid character classes

For Warriors if damage resistance will work in synergy with armors as bonus, decreased movement penalty from wearing armors due to bonus from athletic speed bonus and reduced usage of fatigue when sprinting give more stamina for next attacks as well can allow do battering bashes with sprint+shield bash and forward devastating attacks from longer distance, allow more economical fatigue usage for sprinting with less invest into fatigue and more into health so as well help reach ranged target in shorter time, allow stay armed and protected even if armors are broken and weapon is disarmed, exhaust enemy stamina so he will less capable for longer fights, armored gloves and boots enhance Martial Arts damage and increase damage reduction during block without weapon or shield, do you always curios why such spiked daedric or bear gloves does not provide of any effect on H2H or steel gauntlets?

For Rogues if cumbersome armors decrease maneuverability with ranged weapon but be completely without armors is too dangerous, penalty to speed can be decreased form fatigue usage reduction as well allow more shots be shoot at one time and use more more powerful bows more frequently (I think different bows can use different amount of fatigues per shoot to model long bows and short bows) and stay in target mode longer time without large investment into fatigue, allow use Martial Arts movements to take tactical advantage over enemy in combat by dodging, sprinting and jumping, allow do disarm enemy from their weapons and shields, allow make acrobatics combat with using of strikes in jump, allow kick in combat as replace of shield bash (so no need train Block or have cumbersome shield when you prefer fast combat) and be used as forward attack, allow exhaust fatigue of enemy so he will slower in your pursuit or strikes in combat, Martial Arts allow do critical strikes from stealth even if you dont have weapons (neck snaps and strangulation work well here) or help in fast disarm in synergy with pickpocket in realtime.

For Mages if cumbersome armors limit your magic effectiveness and disturb your concentration since you don't have special Battlemage training form beginning, you will use clothes what not provide protection until will enchanted greatly, you dont need do hand to hand damage for rising such skill just receive (like armors or block skills) or successfully dodge incoming strikes, since mages invest most of they levelups into Magicka and health reduced fatigue usage from Martial Arts help a lot for them, as well allow run from danger if Magicka is out or there is now haste spell, damage reduction bonus help also since clothes cannot protect much as well there will be less concentration fails if mage will be disturbed during cast or while channel or charge spell, hand to hand movements can also work with touch spells effectively increasing their effect by adding Martial Arts movements effects to spell effect how about paralyze enemy with strike and slowly burn it with fire with one strike?
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ShOrty
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 5:41 am

I really don't see what the fuss is.

They removed blade and blunt too.
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Kay O'Hara
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 2:45 am

Technically speaking....it is a two handed weapon ;).
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Daniel Brown
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 3:26 am

Technically speaking....it is a two handed weapon ;).

So if I only punch with one hand, then I am only using half of my weapon?
Couldn't it just as "technically" be considered 2 1-handed weapons?
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Cassie Boyle
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 7:12 am

So if I only punch with one hand, then I am only using half of my weapon?
Couldn't it just as "technically" be considered 2 1-handed weapons?


Makes sense as well. I was thinking in terms of most people use boths hands in a fight. Unless it was arm wrestling.

Honestly, It would probably make the most sense to be tied in with wherever they put the strength-related perks.
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D LOpez
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 5:13 am

So what o you reckon happens when a weapon gets knocked out of your hand?
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TIhIsmc L Griot
 
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Post » Wed May 18, 2011 8:57 pm

Technically speaking....it is a two handed weapon ;).

Well in Daggerfall it also uses legs
So what o you reckon happens when a weapon gets knocked out of your hand?

Thats is what will be if actor without of weapons?
He must defend self with bare hands.
If H2H now belong to one of two weapon skills, what will be if you train opposite one?
How thats can be if you swing with heavy one hand mace all time and cannot defend self with bare hands?
Most logical if hand to hand belong to more skills it one time since it features is hard to bind just only for one skill, but best if Hand to Hand become separate skill, in such cases it will blown with full glory.

Makes sense as well. I was thinking in terms of most people use boths hands in a fight. Unless it was arm wrestling.

Honestly, It would probably make the most sense to be tied in with wherever they put the strength-related perks.

If used as separate skill it can allow use legs in combat as well and give many new movements also, how many peoples does not use legs in combat they are longer and hit harder, and I see ridicules crush power attack form Oblivion when tiny Bosmer try land so powerful strike with his weak hands, better if he use round house kick.
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Kay O'Hara
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 6:53 am

If we cant build a character around H2H, then it will be a problem, as in unarmed just being a last resort type move.
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rebecca moody
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 1:09 am

I find the removal of hand-to-hand combat totally unjustifiable -- like spears. I can only hope that, like spears, hand-to-hand will be returning a rather untraditional sense.
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Joie Perez
 
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Post » Thu May 19, 2011 4:14 am

I feel like the "Unarmed" system has been getting progressively better since MW; it has a large presence in NV and it would be a shame if they just cut it entirely. I'm not going to make any assumptions until I hear confirmation however.
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Naughty not Nice
 
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