[Valerie Marie]

Original thread: http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1197267-hand-to-hand-removed-he-man-died-today/

Well, the last thread is at the limit, so I started this one to further discussion.

Quick Recap: According to Playstation The Official Magazine, July 2011 issue, Hand 2 Hand has been removed.

As many have already speculated, whats been removed is probably just the skill. Striking will probably still be possible, its just tied to a different skill or stat. But we arent sure yet.

[Jade Barnes-Mackey]

Why?

I mean why the new thread? 11 pages of [censored]ing wasn't enough?

[Robert Garcia]

It's for the best I'm sure. We'll still be able to punch regardless.

[Julie Serebrekoff]

A little disappointing, but as long as my heroes can still punch out horses* I'll be content.

And as much as it's an over-used excuse (whether or not the lack of a feature needs excusing), there may yet be unarmed attack perks not tied to a skill.

*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9EGPNbTaOI

[Racheal Robertson]

I assume it will have damage tied to one handed skill, or something like that for one particular reason. Why put all the effort into unarmed weapons and perks into their last game, which had mini nuke launchers and plasma guns?
Because if you wanted to play a ninja hand to hand master instead of shooting, relatively safely from a distance, they weren't about to stop your fun.
Why the hell would they then turn around and remove it completely from a low tech, brutal, don't have a bow or spells better get up close and personal, fantasy game?
It just doesn't make sense to improve on a feature one game, make people happier, then cut it for the next. Maybe they really felt acrobatics and attributes were better cut than fixed, but H2H had been fixed from OB to FO3, opinion, but I think that is the general consensus.

[Danielle Brown]

Pete Hines four months ago on twitter when asked about hand to hand combat:

@Silvade14 No. That's one of the areas of the game we are trying to make worse/less fun.
http://twitter.com/#!/DCDeacon/status/29685665197195264

[Nicole Coucopoulos]

snip

Yeah it would be pretty pathetic if you couldn't punch things do death since they're advertising the game as being very rugged, home of the Nords.

[Queen]

Pete Hines four months ago on twitter when asked about hand to hand combat:

I'm not too sure what to take from that. Was he being sarcastic? That's an odd way of putting it?

[Kill Bill]

Pete Hines four months ago on twitter when asked about hand to hand combat:

I wish I could see what he responded to, because it doesn't make any sense, why would they intentionally make something worse/less fun? I feel like he's being sarcastic.

[Blaine]

I'm not too sure what to take from that. Was he being sarcastic? That's an odd way of putting it?

I don't think that could possibly be anything other than sarcasm.

I'm assuming the guy asked a question like "Is H2H going to be fun?"

[stevie trent]

Sadly the question seems to have been removed, but I still remember it was about H2H combat.
At the time I was quite sure his response was sarcasm. It sounds like they have something in mind for H2H combat without giving it its own skill. I'm not sure.

Also, there was a vague post by vsions in one of the eariler threads that suggests we will be able to fight with our fists.
I hate how every new Skyrim article raises more questions than it answers!

[Nomee]

Can't wait for the E3 info, hopefully all this will be put to rest and the devs will unveil a bit about the state of unarmed combat in Skyrim and their plans for it.

[Scarlet Devil]

Great, how am I supposed to steal and kill an enemy with their own weapon now?

[Oyuki Manson Lavey]

Well if H2H now belong to another skill there will question then for example
if H2H belong to two handed does increasing it will automatically make you better with two handed weapons as well?
What will be with characters thats relay on speed and fast combat and prefer dual wilding of one handed weapons and H2H?

I think better was if devs make separate Martial Arts skill
Thats have different perks trees and branches, with different techniques like
strong and heavy or fast and frequent punches and kicks,
disarming with counterblows and crippling enemies with grips and throws,
and unarmored damage resistance and acrobatic dodging,
longer and faster running, longer breath holding underwater and faster swimming, longer and higher jumping,
many things can be done under such skill, but if one of weapon skills will have H2H as few perks thats increase damage thats looks too small for me, even Oblivion in such cases will be better.
especially modded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uB85jBGN0M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ7QDWSM_I4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hON24ALDb0

Well why then not remake skill if it was too weak to someone?
Learn new moves with skills, disarm and cripple opponents, acrobatic dodging and unarmored damage resistance?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA0uTRHyGh8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z2yH7Jilbo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkCyxSl89LE

Devs by self like H2H combat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5zVawg-J-w&t=4m15s

[Andrew Tarango]

I never used Hand to Hand if I'm hoenst...I still want striking though I mean it wouldn't make any sense at all not being able to

[aisha jamil]

I think better was if devs make separate Martial Arts skill
Thats have different perks trees and branches, with different techniques like
strong and heavy or fast and frequent punches and kicks,
disarming with counterblows and crippling enemies with grips and throws,
and unarmored damage resistance and acrobatic dodging,
longer and faster running, longer breath holding underwater and faster swimming, longer and higher jumping,

We can dream, can't we?
Athletics, Acrobatics and Hand2Hand merged to Martial Arts. Or maybe they just don't want to call it Hand to Hand because it includes kicks.
Too bad this is all grasping for straws.

[Josh Dagreat]

Well if H2H now belong to another skill there will question then for example
if H2H belong to two handed does increasing it will automatically make you better with two handed weapons as well?
What will be with characters thats relay on speed and fast combat and prefer dual wilding of one handed weapons and H2H?

I think better was if devs make separate Martial Arts skill
Thats have different perks trees and branches, with different techniques like
strong and heavy or fast and frequent punches and kicks,
disarming with counterblows and crippling enemies with grips and throws,
and unarmored damage resistance and acrobatic dodging,
longer and faster running, longer breath holding underwater and faster swimming, longer and higher jumping,
many things can be done under such skill, but if one of weapon skills will have H2H as few perks thats increase damage thats looks too small for me, even Oblivion in such cases will be better.
especially modded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uB85jBGN0M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ7QDWSM_I4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hON24ALDb0

Well why then not remake skill if it was too weak to someone?
Learn new moves with skills, disarm and cripple opponents, acrobatic dodging and unarmored damage resistance?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA0uTRHyGh8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z2yH7Jilbo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkCyxSl89LE

Devs by self like H2H combat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5zVawg-J-w&t=4m15s

Well we can't be certain what will happen, but I'm thinking If they do tie it into either two handed or one handed, you won't really be a great unarmed fighter unless you take unarmed perks, you'll just have power behind your swings and better manuverability maybe. Like with the different perk trees for axes, maces, and swords in one handed, you would have to invest in the H2H perk tree if you want some real depth beyond straight damage.

Purely hypothetical of course, no one but the devs can guarantee any of this will be included or that H2H is not simply gone and only weak punching is possible, but to me that seems ridiculous in a barbaric place like Skyrim.

[My blood]

I'd like to remain hopeful it's part of one-handed combat, just like every other weapon that only needs one hand working individually at a time. If one-handed combat covers dual-wielding, it can also cover Hand-to-Hand combat.

There is no reason Hand to Hand combat should be integrally part of Acrobatics and Athletics, even if they do want to give it Wuxia potential. Not everyone who's fluid, mobile, and graceful in combat only uses their fists (See: The Prince of Persia). Likewise, not everyone who only uses their fists in combat is mobile and graceful (See: Theldurin the Lost, from World of Warcraft. He punched Deathwing in the face)

And for those questioning the logic of "Who would use hand-to-hand combat against an army of guys with swords"... Well:
a.) Chuck Norris
b.) Bruce Lee. (Or, he would have)
c.) Mr. T
d.) Captain Falcon
e.) Mario

The Elder Scrolls take a fantastic take on Hand-to-hand combat, just like they do with weapon-based combat (Otherwise, hand-to-hand would feature more and be less isolated from armed combat, as takedowns, kicks, off-hand haymakers, grabs, locks, and other unarmed abilities are used in conjunction with weapons).

[Far'ed K.G.h.m]

I don't think that could possibly be anything other than sarcasm.

I'm assuming the guy asked a question like "Is H2H going to be fun?"

I take it as, they already view as being one of the least fun aspects of the game. Like they don't like it themselves, so he's being funny and saying they'll make it even worse. He's acknowledging that it's not fun. IMO.

[QuinDINGDONGcey]

you have to remember one critical thing skyrim is being made by bethesda not lionhead studios just because a skill is removed doesnt mean you wont be able to do said action such as punching jumping or being able to run quickly

[Rachel Eloise Getoutofmyface]

We can dream, can't we?
Athletics, Acrobatics and Hand2Hand merged to Martial Arts. Or maybe they just don't want to call it Hand to Hand because it includes kicks.
Too bad this is all grasping for straws.

Dreams and hopes drive peoples fast into over hyping of game like thats was with Oblivion and when rough cold stone reality comes out of pink mist of dream :banghead: we suffer from blind dreams.
Now I'm I trust only into proofs what have fortified facts, thats safe me from overpricing game and horrible misunderstanding of final results, unless there will be real prof thats H2H still in game and become more then just damage increase with perks.

Well we can't be certain what will happen, but I'm thinking If they do tie it into either two handed or one handed, you won't really be a great unarmed fighter unless you take unarmed perks, you'll just have power behind your swings and better manuverability maybe. Like with the different perk trees for axes, maces, and swords in one handed, you would have to invest in the H2H perk tree if you want some real depth beyond straight damage.

Purely hypothetical of course, no one but the devs can guarantee any of this will be included or that H2H is not simply gone and only weak punching is possible, but to me that seems ridiculous in a barbaric place like Skyrim.

Well then what skill will have such perks or such perks will be scattered between many skills?

[Rozlyn Robinson]

Dreams and hopes drive peoples fast into over hyping of game like thats was with Oblivion and when rough cold stone reality comes out of pink mist of dream :banghead: we suffer from blind dreams.
Now I'm I trust only into proofs what have fortified facts, thats safe me from overpricing game and horrible misunderstanding of final results, unless there will be real prof thats H2H still in game and become more then just damage increase with perks.


Well then what skill will have such perks or such perks will be scattered between many skills?

Perks for H2H will be in the double handed combat skill tree, I almost guarantee it.

[emma sweeney]

Every single facet of gameplay can't be the best in the business.

[jason worrell]

Dreams and hopes drive peoples fast into over hyping of game like thats was with Oblivion and when rough cold stone reality comes out of pink mist of dream :banghead: we suffer from blind dreams.
Now I'm I trust only into proofs what have fortified facts, thats safe me from overpricing game and horrible misunderstanding of final results, unless there will be real prof thats H2H still in game and become more then just damage increase with perks.


Well then what skill will have such perks or such perks will be scattered between many skills?

Already answered: One-handed combat.

[Miragel Ginza]

In case I'm not the 20'th person who pointed this out:

HtH has been replaced by perks, just like every other weapon skill.
It's nothing we didn't knew already.

Now we have one handed and two handed, each with a perk-tree branching out in several specialties.

It's something along the lines of:

-one handed: weapon, shield, dual wielding
-two handed: weapon, bow, hand-to-hand