Pete Hines http://twitter.com/#!/DCDeacon/status/102051762554421248 that Hand 2 Hand damage does not fall under any skill, which most likely means that you can't increase your hand 2 hand damage, and definitely means that there won't be any hand 2 hand perks. This reduces hand 2 hand to nothing more than a gimmick compared to other combat options.

I don't know why Bethesda tries to remove anything that doesn't fit into the warrior/mage/thief archetype, but that's that.
Along with Acrobats, we can now put Monks to rest. It was fun while it lasted.

:sadvaultboy:

this make your sig ironic... :hubbahubba:

There's no point to hand to hand and it wouldn't be useful in a fight. I challenge you, right now, to go up to a piece of steal and punch it as hard as you can. It just wouldn't be affective when your opponent is wearing armor and has a sword/hammer/axe.

That contradicts the statement made by Ashley Chang that hand to hand combat monks would be a viable choice. I don't think he would have said that if it wasn't. Plus, Pete said that you can use it in combat but that it's not related to a skill. I don't know why you're jumping to conclusions so soon, here...

Fantasy monks would beg to differ.

think about this though, if you went into combat against someone wielding swords or axes, are you gonna use your fists? or the weapon that's equal? and which comes first, knock out or death? hand to hand while is fun, can't be applied correctly as a skill in TES because they don't have the time to sit down and write a martial art's mechanic that will allow it to work. it's non lethal and you'll enjoy the snot out of it during tavern brawls. they tried hand to hand in the past, and it just didn't work right. yeah, there are fun enjoyable moments from hand to hand such as svckerpunching someone. that's always fun. but just be patient, I see a lot of things that are being "taken out" as a good thing. they're taking time to refine and perfect the basics they have, so that they can then move forward and rebuild to make it great. they had a lot of ideas throught the TES series but it was too much and it made so that things became useless or too much. or that you could do things that just didn't make sense, like mark and recal from morrowind, you could get out of any situation with that. even ones that you weren't supposed to be able to. sorry there's no hand to hand but you'll be enjoying everything else so much you won't think about the hand to hand that much.

I really don't care about it much. Never made much sense blocking a claymore with my forearms anyways.

I don't see how it could be viable without perks or even a skill to increase its effectiveness. :shrug:


I'm sorry, but that is nonsense. I've been looking forward to making a decent monk for the glory of Shor ever since it was speculated that TES V would take place in Skyirm. I won't just forget about it when they take everything I wanted to do in this game away, bit by bit.

Eh, I think it's non-lethal now.

I never really used it so I will just appreciate the other skills

lol... you know, a fantasy monk, or any martial artist for that matter, would actually *dodge* a claymore rather than block it. Fantasy monks are supposed to be totally badass combatants, able to dodge most blows and strike pressure points with hand to hand combat that would make an armoured enemy fall to their knees. I suppose they didn't have fantasy monks in mind, though, when they were making this game. It's too bad there isn't a very fleshed out dodge system in this game also.

However, I wouldn't rule out viable hand to hand combat just yet. If it isn't in the default product then modders might be able to do something with it, if they so wished.

It was always just a gimmick...

Pete didn't mention anything about perks. He said there isn't a skill related to hand to hand combat. Unless, of course, I'm being ignorant and missed a previous statement on the matter... which is entirely plausible. o.o

Think about it, a guy in full daedric get's hit by a dudes fist. Does the guy in daedric get hurt? No he breaks his fist. How about this, a guy in blocks with his fists to stop a incoming blade what happens? His hand's are cut off.

Quoted like a true non hand to hand user.

Hand to hand was an amazing skill. Not only does it hurt people, it also hurted people's fatigue. Low fatigue=bad.

Great, they remove Athletics/Acrobatics, Speed, possibly shortswords, spell making and now Hand to Hand? What a joke!




Fireballs.Chameleon.Please don't bring realism into this! Realism isn't a valid point.

I challenge you, right now, to go up to a piece of steel and burn it to ashes! With that fireball that shoots out of your hand!!!

As for Hand 2 Hand, they announced it wasn't in the game anymore awhile ago and I was hoping they would add it later since one of the stealth skills wasn't announced but ah well. I was hoping they'd improve it with fancy combat moves etc but I like the way most of the game is turning out so ah well

i hope that during the hand to hand fights they still have finishing moves sxcept it will be a KO not a death... like lets say you grab there head and knee them in the face, knocking out your opponent.

I never really found it super useful in Oblivion or Morrowind anyways, plus punching is still in the game so it's still possible to make hand to hand characters. It's just not going to be easy.

Shouldnt be horrendous at level 1.

I'll bring logic into it if I wish to. Hand to Hand combat has always been pointless and completly defys all logic. If you hit someone enough to damage them in a suit of armor you hand would break. If you cast a fireball obviously you have some form of mental manipulation and have access to more of your brain than other people.

I can understand being upset about having something that was in a previous game taken out in the sequel, but hand to hand was always kinda dumb. Especially that crotch-chop move you would do while sneaking. I'm sure you'll find some other archetype that will get you excited to play the game. You've certainly got enough time to think of something.

Perhaps it's used for cherry-tapping? You knock a guy to the ground with lots of punches then kepp beating him up on the floor, like in Morrowind.

It all depends on how the new pick-pocket thing works. If it turns out to be terrible, then I'd say it would have been better to have a H2H skill in it's place. but with it being a whole skill with perks, it can turn out to be the thief characters dream come through. I'm very much looking forward to the pick-pocket thing.

Disappointing. Would've been nice to be able to roll a warrior-monk sort of PC without extensive modding and/or work-arounds.

Pathetic how some people are defending everything. "Who cares it's out, I never used it any way!" - "It doesn't make sense, so I'm fine with it", or my favourite one in this thread "Now they'll be able to focus on the core features, and make those better, even if you don't care about them!". Striking how it all seems to come from people who joined in the last few months....

There is no decent justification for this. None.