Hand to hand is in, just not as a skill. I like it.

Well, that's one possible reason.

Another one is that this....



....would be incredibly silly.


----
On the topic of the vast improvements to "hand to hand" in Fallout:Vegas..... yeah, as most people mentioned, Obsidian. But also - weren't alot of the improvements in melee weapon combat? All the VATS special moves/etc? Or were there actually also more features in bare-hand combat? (Wouldn't know - I barely even use melee weapons in the recent Fallout games, let alone going after people with fists.)

He said you just punch people repeatedly. just as every other combat mechanic does, as a reason to downplay its importance, and no I did not say anything about them sacrificing Graphics and NPC's to improve hand to hand. ever since they confirmed NPC marriages, Finishing moves and the fact the dual wielding was a late feature and that the already existing Combat and spell system were bent around it, I don't listen to any remarks about "they didnt have time" or "they sacrificed this so that those can be better"

There is no such thing as a small group of people and when someone asks for features that already freaking exists they aren't being unreasonable, no one thing makes up the TES series or captures people and keeps them, its the many features that TES has boasted in past titles that keep people rooted, Many options for Many people who have their own reasons for liking the game, when you start cutting those out, choices start dwindling.


and I don't need the remark about going an making some games, I don't have anything to prove to anyone.

h2h is useless but spear is not!

No it wouldn't. It's a fantasy game inspired part by D&D so stop using the overrated "silly" argument. There are plenty of ways to RP this.

Like yelling to slow down time? or Hot breath capable of killing people? or what about needing an Amulet to romance?

You can still use hand to hand as a weapon and kill with it. And we already know of some ways you can enhance the damage. Its just not a skill any more.

lol wut?

Many people used spears and H2H... not sure why you blindly defend bad decisions.

Losing H2H is Beth saying hey, lets cut the amount of roleplaying potential. I wouldnt mind were it not an action adventure RPG.

Pete has already confirmed it is possible to kill a Dragon with H2H, so it must be fairly powerful, or unless there is a shout that ties in with this.

It would be silly to be able to kill a Dragon with H2H if we were playing just a normal human. Remember we are Dovahkiin...master of shouts and all round super hero guy..

Didn't they mention in the E3 demo that you assign a weapon/skill to each mouse button? Imagine having a sword in one hand and the other unarmed...

A downward slash followed by a Fist of Wrath! :biggrin:

Why is it called "hand to hand"?! One fights with hands only, maybe feet, elbows, knees, body parts, too. No weapons!

Or it starts off okay but gets weak as you level since there are no skills or perks for it. And sure you "can" kill a dragon with it 1 HP at a time, it just would take forever. Then again maybe it is powerful and scales with level or something, and is just removed from skills.(which is still stupid)

http://twitter.com/#!/DCDeacon/status/102051762554421248

It's going to be hard when they may very well give us no way to improve damage. Kinda goes against the whatever you want to be slogan when you can't be a monk and kill dragons as effectively as someone with a sword. Even if it's tied to stamina, it goes against the get better at something by doing it slogan.

There's no logical reason behind the removal of hth as a skill other than Beth said so. And when beth says something stupid like this, it's hard to sit back and take it.

I agree it svcks they removed it from the skills, i wanted it as a skill with perks for monk classes etc. I would be surprised at only doing 1hp at a time kind of damage, any Dragon would tear you a new one pretty quick at that rate.
Who knows, perhaps we will have to find the fabled gauntlets of frostburn or some such artifact, to be able to do high damage. I guess we won`t know until Pete or someone clarifies it.

K. Go learn to animate, learn to program and then design a game with good hand to hand and come back to us when you think otherwise :flamethrower:

Sort of how they advertise the elder scrolls anyways dude, so no hand to hand skill is a big deal(Though is possible they have perks for it under "two handed"). And with spears..the only reason I can see not having spears effecting people's gameplay is in dragon slaying, where a pole arm and bow would be nice. :sadvaultboy:

You should take it for granted you don't know what you're talking about, and the people who have been developing the game for longer than you've been with the series do.

Five years.

It may seem like a long time to you, but try building a game engine from scratch, writing a completely new language, building a radiant AI system, illustrating interactive plant and animal life, constructing a realtime weather system, programming a completely new spell and combat system...plus the thousands of other details that went into this game.

You do that in five years and see what you come up with.

Not everything made it in. They prioritized, and some things didn't make the cut. I'm sorry you feel this limits your options in one of the MOST UNLIMITED games ever made...but yeah.

because h2h was a niche gimmick that needed mods to be usefull.


I think they wanted to use their limited time and resources on better features that more people would use.

yah hand 2 hand has always svcked in all TES games

at least in Skyrim the svck-ge does not have its own skill which is great, since all H2H is basically punching stuff, so unless they can make it really great and Kung fu like I prefer if it remains ignored.

They tried to cut a combat style they litterally can't cut. The only reason we can still punch stuff is that our hands are physically attatched to our bodies. Hth would have went the way of the spear if it weren't for that tiny little detail.

If they gave a good reason, would I be more understanding? Sure. But the thing is they gave http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/31/todd-howard-on-skyrims-worthwhile-glitches-mmos-and-when-big-i/?a_dgi=aolshare_twitter, and quite frankly it only adds fuel to the fire.



So, it's something they weren't going to pay off on. You can be whatever you want to be, but this that and those are things we aren't going to let you pay off on using. Now that's a slogan.


What are you talking about? They bothered to improve hth animations to make it feel better when you hit someone. They even went so far as to give khajiits a clawing animation. All they need to do is tie it's damage output to a skill and copy paste some perks from the past games. They already did the hard work, but for some reason they don't feel the need to do the easy part to finish it off. There's no logic to be found in not connecting hth damage with a skill.

"Not pay off" probably means it wasn't worth the effort for the addition to gameplay. In other words if it was a skill you have to build the perk tree for it, and also add one skill to the other two categories to keep the symmetry. As it stands now it probably has a 50% chance of being as "complex" as it was in Oblivion, but putting it in as a skill is asking for a lot of extra effort to be dedicated to something that's not commonly used as a main offense -- it's not just "keeping something in".

I agree to an extent. Modders have always made h2h much more useful and engaging; vanilla h2h was always fairly pathetic.



H2H requires more than "arm work." IMO the improved animations are a start at best; but the style as a whole needs a lot more sustenance than what they're obviously prepared to give. So unfortunately, it's left in as a modding resource and a gimmick for console users. I agree though, it svcks it's not dived into deeper.

I'm not saying nobody used it, I'm saying that it was nothing more than just a reskinned version of every other weapon.

Spears are more than just swords on a stick, hand to hand is more than just punching people to death.
They did not wanted to half-ass it again, so they did not made it at all.

Totally agree with you here. H2H as a skill really didn't make much sense despite it's ...history. IMO H2H was one of the most useless skills and I really don't miss it in Skyrim, besides you still can use H2H and now it can be used via PC skill instead of game skill which is a good thing IMO.