If indeed there is no spell making feature, the question arises as to how the power of spells will increase, and what spells will be available to us? Will spells level as you use them? WIll the perk system allow an answer for this? Or will your character be entirely dependent upon the spells that other mages have to offer for sale, and unable to increase the power of a spell to its logical maximum potnential?

It is a very troubling thought, and tied into is something I have encountered in the Oblivion game. There are certain spell types that have a cap, even in spellmaking in Oblvion: Spells that cap at 25 rather than 100. Now, from a distance, this doesn't seem like a problem since 25 is supposedly the level max for that game. . . the problem arises because that chararacter level cap is a soft level cap, while the cap on some of those spells is very hard. . . and some enemy NPCs level with you at an uncapped rate. The end result was I have often found myself confronted with Vampires and other Undead who will turn around and pimp slap you if you hit them with the most powerful Turn Undead spells that the game offers. There are other examples equally troubling, but that one illustrates the point well enough. So what shall be done about it here?

I really hope you can learn spells from perks. Go a few perks into conjure and get a special type of summon.

Todd said in an interview they are trying to implement spell making, so hopefully it works out

Yeah, I heard that too. They "Have some ideas on the board, but dunno where they're going to go" so the team isn't committing to the feature yet.

You realize that in Oblivion that if you cast a level 25 turn undead spell and you have 100% spell effectiveness it will effect ALL undead enemies, even if they are above level 25. But sadly you cant wear armor and have this. This is according to the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Magical_Effects#Magnitude_to_Level_Conversion

But yes, if the enemies are going to be over lv 25, then the magnitude cap for spells should also be over 25.

leveled spells are the bane of existence, I worked to get that Finger of the mountain spell, so what if Im level 5 I'd like to use that spell in its full glory provided my Char has the power, If I don't then its in my spell book until I can. but a power ment to wipe entire avenues clean of enemies shouldnt stoop because I don't have the required level, the only blocks should be player capability. as for spells growing with the player, I thought getting better in a particular school remedied that.

I agree that was TERRIBLE in Oblivion. I played on xbox so the lv 20+ or so version of Finger of the Mountain was the strongest single spell damage in the game. So I always felt a need to wait until I was leveled up to get it. I usually always found my self power leveling in Oblivion to be able to get the stronger Unique and Artifact scaled weapons and armor. It killed a lot of the experience.

The general consensus is leveled everything is stupid.

Are you certain?? My character hasn't worn a stich of armour. . . ever really, accept to try a few things on and see how they looked. Magic jewelry doesn't count as armour. I carry a sword, but that shouldn't effect anything. Yet despite being a master of Five schools of Magic including conjouration. . . the turn undead spells max at 25, and there are undead in the game, Vamps in particular, who find the attack laughable.

Ah! I CERTAINLY hope it works. Spellmaking is one of the games' better features.

Finger of the Mountain was so disappointing.

The issue with pre-fab spells is that they often don't do what the player really needs them to do. Level spells make it even worse because they don't do what you need them to do AND they don't do it well.

A: We currently have no idea. All there is, is speculation.

If there is no spell making I will be highly disappointed. Frankly, enchantments have the potential to replace spells...except for those ridiculously powerful ones. Also it's limited to the item you're enchanting it on but it's still much more practical.

thats actually one of the two things I'm actually kind of upset about. Spell making was one of the greatest things about being a mage, you could make the craziest most powerful spells and go nuts with them after you've taken forever to build up all your skills. If spell making doesn't make it in I think I'll be a bit saddened.

Yeah one semi-speculation one is the idea of using the dual-wielding different spells to make new spells. Which I think I'd, honestly, prefer over creating new spells like its some kind of crafting system. I think in an interview he specifically mentioned how that kinda ruins the mystical side of magic when you can just break it down like its alchemy and brew up another spell whenever. Which I agree with, I'd rather be able to take 2 spells and cast them at the same time to combine them into something new on the fly then have to go 'crafting'.

Would feel more natural to me anyways, just not sure how much of that they'd put in. Also keep in mind some spells have different effects depending on how you use it. One example was the Fire spell, literally has 3 different ways you can use it at default. Tap for a firebolt like thing, hold down for a flamethrower effect that will stick to surfaces so you could, potentially, use that to make a firewall as well. Also pointing at the ground near your feet creates a Fire Trap Rune instead. That's 3 different spells, all handles by 1. Add to that the idea you could equip fire in both hands, tap both mouse button/triggers at once and get a Fireball instead of a bolt and you can see how things could get a little crazy. More so when they've said they have a TON of spells still.

Basically I really hope they ignore spellcreation in the crafting sense, and go full force with the on-the-fly spell combination with dual-wielding spells. Personally I think that'll feel far more mage-like.

I really have no issues with what Adhin called "crafting system" lookalike. In my opinion, in magickal world of Nirn place of advanced science is occupied by magickal research, and instead of scientists and engineers there are mages and enchanters. So what if magickal spells do have some numbers in their descriptions?

Of course, I am all for variable spell manipulation, this is one great idea, but this is not the point. Spell-making is the way to create base spells from list of effects, and spell-weaving (for the lack of better term) is the way of using and utilizing of these base spells. One should not exclude another.

For example, I really don't like Oblivion base Restoration spells, preferring regeneration over time effect instead myself, even on low levels of Restoration skill. This, of course, may be achieved via spell-weaving. But my favorite line of damage spells, with not so large (10-20) area, 2 seconds duration and relatively low damage by all available health damaging effects, made in various calibers, is too specific. It should be constructed in spell-making menu.

While I answered yes to both questions, technically in oblivion your spells could be effective at any level. The problem you experienced was that you were wearing armor, which always reduces spell effectiveness by at least 5%.
If you wear no armor (clothes only, or heck naked if its your fancy) and used a spell at max level strength, it would always work against any enemy, because of a 100% effectiveness check on max level spells.

It certainlty was not the most elegant system, but it was there, meaning a pure mage with no armor could theoretically land spells at any level.

Not the case. My spell casting was 100%. Not a stich of armour on. Perhaps Vampires are not counted as undead in Oblivion. . . but I think that is not the problem. I think the real problem lay in them being leveled over 25. The turn undead spell capped at 25, and subsequently had no effect on them.

If Charm had capped at 25 I would never have been able to use it on Dremora. Which would have been really shi. . . really crappy.

They better try HARD.

I loved the spellmaking and enchanting from Morrowind.

Vampires are counted as NPCs. Use Demoralize Humanoid.

Aha! Good to know. I wondered about that. Still, some of the same issues apply in other areas. One wonders if anything capped at 25 would work on the dreaded unlimited scaling Goblin warlords!!! And how messed up is it that in a game with demonic Dremor Princes and Xivalai and vampire lords. . . . the scariest and most dangerous thing you can run up against is a damned goblin?!! But that is another topic for another thread.

I think this is how it will work.

Where did you hear there were hard caps for spells? Or where did you see info on how spells will level?

If I use a perk for it, I had better be able to summon something frickin awesome and permanantly!