So I've been thinking to myself since I ever started playing the game:

"ALRIGHT! Lets start up on hardcoe and see how far I can ma-- where are the hunger, thirst, and sleep counters?

Exactly. I've read the articles from PC gamer, and unfortunately it does indeed feel like the RPG atmosphere has been rather... thwarted... but still remains a good game.

Thing is though, while this may be crazy enough to say, the difficulty of survival simply is not enough of a challenge. Once I get my hands on any sniper or non-automatic rifle with a decent perception and make myself a rifleman, the game becomes a cake walk.

Having said this, an idea came to me:
"Survival simply makes all bullets and lasers hit harder, and the restoration time longer. Not to mention that raiders, monsters, and or creatures are harder to kill. However, some people wish to have the counters while still playing on an easier difficulty. Why not add a realism option?"

The same can go for a hardcoe mode. Survival difficulty and realism at the same time.

Wouldn't you fellow vault-boy's and gals say this should be added into next patch?

*IMPORTANT NOTE UPDATE*

Please be aware that this game is completely science-based. When I was reading through the posts, there was mentioning of D&D being compared to this game. Which, as an outcome, makes ZERO SENSE. D&D uses a plentiful of imagination and mythology. FO4 uses the science field of what happens when something is exposed to radiation, and envelops a mutation: not to mention the FEV virus. True, it also uses imagination, but on a scale of realism between FO4 and D&D, D&D completely blows the scale up. Please keep the mentioning of D&D on the DL. I understand that FO4 can be used as a RPG, but like I said earlier, survival is one of the many hidden gems to a masterpiece like this.

Because Bethesda has never done a hardcoe mode. New Vegas had one, but that was done by Obsidian not Bethesda and lots of players don't believe New Vegas' hardcoe mode is useful. It is very likely that Bethesda knows that it can't do a proper hardcoe mode so they leave it for the modders.

because this is not a survival game, It never was, this is an RPG, and putting a lot of work into a "not at all realistic" feature that few actually care about is a waste of resources.

If you want to play a Survival game, PLAY A survival game, not an RPG.

If only there was a decent postapocalyptic survival game. I actually enjoyed NV hardcoe mode and wouldn't play it any other way. Of course it had its shortcomings, but I found it fun anyway.

Because 'hardcoe' mode was a half baked implementation that received way too much credit from a vocal few.
It added nothing to the game other than requiring my character to eat pi?on nuts every few hours, which really doesn't make sense.

It added nothing to realism and really didn't improve roleplay in any way.

yeah, too bad FAllout is NOT a Survival game, but an RPG.

also, this:

and this extends to that in ALL games with that system that are not survival games.

This. Speaking as someone who engaged in New Vegas' hardcoe mode, it didn't bring much of anything to the table. By the time you hit Primm, the needs for eating and drinking were largely once-a-day annoyances. Since most shops closed during the night, there wasn't much point in staying up late anyway (plus the perk that let you rest at any campfire reduced that issue further.) Ammo weight was easily rectified by carrying a few guns that used the same type of ammo.

Really, the only thing that was kept was the healing's Heal Over Time bit.

If you want your character to eat, drink, and sleep you can do that in FO4 in a way that's much more meaningful and roleplay-ish than the NV hardcoe mode.

And this. A hardcoe system just puts more constraints on how you play, and limits stuff. Just roleplay it!

I don't think hardcoe mode (in it's current New Vegas state) would work with the settlement system to be honest. After one successful settlement, keeping your food, water and sleep in check would become a chore.

EH, I always thought that while it was shallow in New Vegas, it was in the very least a great base which they could build stuff off of, and it actually gave a reason and meaning to food, other than just popping stimpaks and radaway, because while stims and radaway had better restorative effects, they could never offer you any sustenance which could prove to be your downfall.

Not to mention that it would add on to the RPG effect of the game because one of the worst things to a RPG game is a lack of immersion, and nothing broke immersion for me more than seeing all these settlers and settlements begging for help in acquisition of food and water or they'd otherwise starve, and then I'd just look at myself and say "well, the government must've given me one of those confangled new-age drugs, because I haven't had to eat or drink in a year."

And I can't roleplay it myself for 2 reasons:

1. I'd probably screw it up and just forget about it after 3 days of playing and

2. Fallout 4 actually made food a really valuable in game asset that actually can help you out a crap ton, and if I wasted it on some stupid in-my-head roleplaying i'd feel like an asshat.

So make sure you eat a couple of times a day and sleep, like others have said, roleplay it. NV's mode wasn't difficult, it wasn't 'hardcoe'. it was far from a challenge it just added some micromanagement, that's it. The ONLY time I got a debuff (which was just twice in my entire playthrough) from lack of sleep was when I fast travelled across the map, I ate something to remove it then rested when I saw a bed. End of problem. Bullet weight was the only thing I really had to manage but I found that to be more annoying than 'hardcoe'.

hardcoe ruleset, should be limiting game saves to only when you sleep. You should have a risk of being attacked on rest (when it isn't your own bed), on death you should have some of your gear/caps stolen and receive a debuff and fast travel should be removed. You can add food, sleep or thirst debuffs if you like but if you had the ruleset I've mentioned, food, sleep and thirst would be the least of your worries. The difficulty should also be locked in so that you cannot change it.

It's optional. Those who want can play with those constraints others could turn it off. The reason people (minority or not) still want it, is because after 2 successful games and milions of profits they made, 3 simple timers and a HUD notification shouldn't be hard to make. Just have to wait for mods.

Ehm, basic needs was just a fraction of what HC mode did for FONV gameplay. Don't forget ammo weights, companion deaths, limb damage and so on.

FONV did it beautifully. Basic needs never felt intrusive to me, and you could ignore it for a long time as long as you could live with some slight side effects (reduced stats typically). "Oh, I'm hungry, better eat immediately" - not the way real life works, and nobody forced anyone to adhere to it that way in FONV either.

From what I've seen on previous mods, they tend to take it too far compared to what FONV did, and too simple in terms that things are not built around it like FONV did.

I have never played a tabletop dice based RPG that didn't have some sort of basic needs system in their rulesets. Although not related to basic needs, we would sometimes discuss and discard some of the rules if it made sense (and of course if game master agrees ), which is why I prefer an option based hardcoe mode. Typical example here would be companion deaths in FONV being optional, reasoning that they wouldn't act smartly or even try to survive.

You mean like D&D? because yeah, besides the need to sleep/rest to restore powers and spells, there are no basic needs in the ORIGINAL RPG game, not in any of its many editions.

Whenever I see people say a hard dificulty is easy, I immediately search for the word "Sniper Rifle".

I found HC did not really add anything. It did not make the game harder and in some cases I found it easier since food was quite effective at healing and you could stack different types of food to heal.

... You wouldn't say FO4 is a survival game? Did you literally take the time to notice the "survival" difficulty in the options?

Quick question for you. What would YOU do if a nuclear detonation occurred and everything was in ruin? Roleplay and pretend you're this one dude who can easily take down a deathclaw with one bullet from a pipe pistol?

Sorry bud. That is not easily how it works in a nuclear wasteland. Sure, I may have a fat man with five mini nukes in my disposal, but that doesn't necessarily mean the game is in the palm of my hands...

Sure, the tags on the game doesn't involve survival, but survival itself is the hidden gem of this game. If I were to even see a small herd of giant cockroaches come crawling towards me, I'd start running for my life.

"Few actually care"

Statistics please. Otherwise your mathematical claims are useless.

I guess the only statistic that matters is the number 1. As in 1 game developer (Bethesda) didn't think it was worth their time or effort to put the mode in their game.

They wanted to focus their efforts elsewhere.

Good for them as many of us (not a mathematics claim) feel hardcoe Mode was silly.

I'm with the crowd that thinks needing to sleep and eat quickly becomes nothing more than a nuisance, but I also believe it renders the game more immersive. I just never bother with those options/mods, because the chore isn't worth the immersion. However, I think there's a way that would make it attractive to me; but I might very well be the only one in the world that would like to have it this way...

I'd like a "hardcoe" option that I can apply to any difficulty level. And I'd like it to be a double-edged sword. Let's just say for a moment, that they didn't include a "well rested" bonus for sleeping in the "non-hardcoe" difficulty.

• Being tired/exhausted should bring a malus, and being well rested should bring a bonus
• Being hungry/famished should bring a malus, being well-fed should bring a bonus
• Realistic carry capacity and weight of items would mean I CAN'T carry an entire skyscraqers worth of loot with me. However, the traders would offer a fair price for items (I just unloaded enough guns and ammo to field an army twice the size of diamond city itself, and all I'm getting is this alarm clock and a clip of .50? F.U. Trader!)
• Saving only upon resting in a settlement would bring some real danger to exploring the wastes, but could be made "worth it" by (I really don't know) maybe increasing XP/Legendaries/x2 dmg on headshots or some other good idea someone can come up with.

Being an option of "Yes this is going to hurt, but ooh, I'm really looking forward to those perks of playing on hardcoe" would tip me in favor of the "nuisance", as it also adds immersion.

I actually prefer what Fallout 4 does, because they actually make food and rest useful. I go through the game eating, drinking, and sleeping like a natural human being just as a consequence of needing the healing without wanting to waste Stimpaks, or wanting the Well Rested bonus. Hunger/thirst/sleep meters just felt like an arbitrary chore, not something realistic.

The problem is that New Vegas' hardcoe mode just wasn't that great. There was so much food and water around, and levels increased so slowly, that all it became about was meter watching. Every now and then you'd eat/drink something and fast travel to your house to rest. The healing over time aspect was really the only big thing, which has already been incorporated into FO4's base.

If they really want to make a hardcoe mode, it would have to go beyond basic needs. Food and water shouldn't heal at all (though they can still give some bonuses). Timers need to be bumped up so that you need to eat and drink 2-3 times a game day and need 6-8 hours a night or start suffering major penalties. Weapons and armor should degrade and need to be repaired by parts you get from breaking down junk. Damage should be realistic-- no bullet sponges. Instead, everything (including the player) do a lot more damage, leading to quicker deaths if you aren't careful.

Given so many are interested in a 'Survival' mode with food and water and sleep being essential - I hope Bethesda give up that option!

Im totally with the OP here and others. I would love to see a real hardcoe SURVIVAL 'setting'. And let me underline the word 'Setting' - that it's an option to choose for those who want it, those that don't want it need never bother with it.

And, I'm with the OP with regard to the challenge of the current Survival difficulty setting. It's way too easy.... I mean I would never dare play Skyrim with the difficulty slider all the way up, because it really was mental difficult. But this Survival mode, is what I would consider more of a normal mode or slightly above. It certainly doesn't feel very difficult at all........

Sometimes that specific "number 1" who happens to be the developer would want to hear the voice of the players, growing into a rather gigantic statistic. We're talking thousands of players who actually enjoyed hardcoe mode in New Vegas. I'm one of them.

I get that people do not have the patience to go through all these "chores" (i.e. eating, sleeping, and drinking). Although you consider hardcoe mode "silly", a five day time period without eating anything and still living is hilarious. Same with sleeping and hydration. Without HC, its merely a "want". With it, it becomes a "need".