So, instead of hitting the save button every five minutes, it'll be hunt a bed down every five minutes?

I would definitely call myself a casual gamer. If a game demands too much investment to achieve something, I'm not willing to do that.

I don't mean learning its mechanics and getting spoon fed everything. I am a long time Thief, Fallout & Dark Souls fan (to me games that may not be the most difficult, but definitely sophisticated and not shallow), I always start a game with the highest difficulty setting and tone it down if needed, rather than the other way round. I like it when games are demanding and invite you to explore what they want from you. What I don't like, however, is grindy stuff and/or "sports team" esque commitment. Hence why I stopped playing MMOs a long time ago.

All in all though, I play games to enjoy myself, and quit them if I don't. I am ambitious, but only versus myself. If somebody beats me, and I can tell how he did it, I work on that to improve - if I just don't stand a chance, I chalk it off to superior practice/experience, congratulate them and move on.

Yeah, the term "casual" is bull@!$#. Those people make it sound like if you have a life and can't spend 16 hours a day playing a game, you have to business doing it. I'm 33. I work 60 hours a week. It's simply not an option. I try to squeeze in as much time as I can, it still is one of my favorite hobbies. Every so often I'll take an extended weekend to get in some extra time. But the days of sitting around playing games from sunset to sundown are gone.

you can't make the game easier than it already is

we have 'very easy', 'easy', 'normal', 'hard' in the base game after all

are you by any chance on a console? this would explain the weird hate on mods that you seem to have ^^

The word 'cheating' always requires someone being 'damaged' by your actions... cheating in an online game will give others a disadvantage when playing against you.

But how is this even possible in a single-player game? You only play for yourself... you don't affect anyone else... you only play for your own enjoyment and for nothing else.

You either play games or not. Hence your either a gamer or not. Titles just make the small people feel bigger.

Also ive cheated SP on GTA games for guns to kill things. So clearly SP cheats exist, now "cheating someone on

MP out of something by having an advantage they dont have" is different. Especially if its against rules/normal parameters intended.

Damn you....Beat me to it...Indeed Pepperidge Faaam remembers, we always remember....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuhlSMqkJSQ

I'm not casual or hardcoe. I'm not a gamer. I just like to play games when and how I like to play them.

Because you're on a game forum. If you went on a film snob forum, you'd get grief for "just liking it" and having no sophistication/etc, as well.

(Ditto on an audiophile forum, saying you like ; etc, etc, etc.)

The term casual and hardcoe exist because they describe a certain quality about someone. I'm an art and film snob in many ways, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying a casual flick or the odd drawing -- it's art. But to compare a pencil drawing of Naruto to The Last Supper are two different things. The Last Supper wasn't free nor was it cheap to see. I couldn't take pictures. I couldn't even cough lol, but there is something sublime about the art. There's something in the art that makes you think of higher things or things in a different way.

Video games are similar. I'm a hardcoe gamer, as I think most of us are actually, whether you want to admit it or not -- we're here discussing a game on a game forum with fellow gamers when many will just pick up the game to gain some level of enjoyment from it, and then toss it.

My friend beat Wolfenstein on the highest difficulty. I called him hardcoe because that takes a lot of work, a lot of work I'm not willing to put into that game. We're both hardcoe gamers, but in that case, he was more of a hardcoe gamer than I was. When it comes to TES or Fallout or CRPGs in general, I'm definitely more hardcoe than he is.

Is his force power Socratic Irony?

Of course, the other big issue is that "Casual" and "hardcoe" mean different things to different groups/in different contexts.

To the publishers & anolysts, "casual gamers" are the people who play solitaire and little mobile things. Who buy few games, don't play much each day, etc. They're a particular market with different interests than "core" gamers, multiple-console-owners, enthusiasts, etc.

Meanwhile, on the bro-chest-bumping game forums, "casuals" is a slur to be deployed against anyone who isn't as Amazing Manly Skilled as they are. If you see "casuals vs hardcoes", that's likely what you're going to run into.

It also tends to be used at the same time as ludicrous hyperbole and strawmen. (I remember discussions on the WoW forums back in the day. "Hey, does anyone think the costs of the new raid gear shop are a bit high, maybe could be tweaked a hair lower?" "OH, SO YOU WANT EVERYTHING MAILED TO YOU FOR FREE, EH?!? CASUAL LOSER!" /facepalm)

The creators have patched out several glitches that were essentially cheats, so apparently the "play as you want" has limitations.

Maybe you shouldn't get offended by it. It's the internet, people say all kinds of nasty things. I do think hardcoe and casual hold some value.

Oh, I don't get offended by it. I just use it as information - if I see people parading around how "hardcoe" they are, and deploying "casuals" as a slur, I know that their opinions & views mean nothing and that it's safe to just ignore them.

Depends if those glitches caused additional problems further done the line from repeated use or if them being fixed was a side effect of a different bug being fixed.

Sometimes, glitches are fixed on purpose, it just kind of happens.

Same here. I think it's pointless. I mean I don't call myself "hardcoe" because I'm better -- it's because I'm more passionate, and I would say it's only related to CRPGs. Now, I have a couple of friends who are crazy about Tekken. I'm a casual Tekken player to be sure because I can't remember all those moves, and I don't want to. I just want to spam the kick button lol. It all varies. Everyone is passionate about something more so than others. But when someone uses the term with a derogatory intent, then they're just being insecure.

edit: But hardcoe is just a descriptor for me. Whether you're hardcoe or casual can change in a minute depending upon on your work schedule, but I consider myself a hardcoe gamer. I guess I'm just not hardcoe enough to put down other players who just want to play a game. I think it's called being a decent human being lol.

Actually that is a good point, any forum attracts the people with more confrontational attitudes about the chosen subject.

I'm a "hardcoe" gamer and I also agree that save on sleep only would be troublesome because of crashes and bugs.

I'm all for thirst, hunger, insomnia, diseases and ammo weight. I would welcome having to brush your teeth or losing charisma if it was an option, but people are gonna explore a building for an hour and then have the game crash and lose an hour or more of progress and it's gonna happen a lot, and Bethesda won't have an answer for it.

My guess is they will make it a toggle or remove it altogether because of this.

Games are only fun if they provide some sort of a challenge. "hardcoe" players need a bigger challenge than "casual" players so when the game gets nerfed they naturally blame the casuals as there are more of them and companies generally care most about profits. In MMO type games with no difficulty settings you get casuals coming to the forums, crying that something is too hard, and next thing you know it gets nerfed a couple patches down the line. Instead of adapting and learning like a human being they just throw a fit and ruin the game for everyone that is competent enough to handle it. Why this is happening with a game that has like 5 difficulty settings and mod support...I have no idea.

People put too much importance one the casual vs. hardcoe (or real) distinction. I'm not going to think less of someones review of a game because they're playing on very easy and I'm on survival. There's no fundamental difference. It's still the same story and the same combat scenarios.

The only relevant point I can see here would be that a review from someone on very easy might not really point out the bullet sponge nature of difficulty scaling in the game, but that's minor compared to other points in my opinion.

This is the vision that people have of "casual" gamers that continues to irritate me. I consider myself a "casual" gamer, and yet I don't play silly cell phone/tablet games. The most "mobile" I get with a game is my Nintendo handheld systems (GBA up to 3DS), and many people consider those to be real games. My definition of "casual" is someone who can't play nearly every day, and who does it just for escapism or fun and isn't so concerned about playing the hardest difficulty setting. Nothing wrong with that, it's just a lifestyle choice. Some people are even made into casual gamers due to work life. If all of us had more free time, we may not be as "casual". *shrug*

You can be a casual gamer, and be dedicated to playing a game in order to play a game. To say casuals are just looking for time-wasting is just as bad as people who claim that all female gamers are silly cell phone game players...

The topic here is about judging people based on how they play. Your post comes off as being judgmental against "casual" gamers even if later in your post you said it's all subjective...

LOL. Star Wars is generally pitiful. The last one especially so. Now I'm an uber, hardcoe, PC master race guy, so you know I'm right about the movie.

I considered myself a hardcoe gamer when it comes to specific games. I played Fallout 3 multiple times, obsessed about getting skills to 100, all bobbleheads, finding all locations. I am just as obsessive about Fallout 4. I was that obsessive with a few other games, Skyrim, Forza, Gran Turismo, Panzer General, Balder's Gate, Champions of Norath. If I find a game I like, I obsess and play for long periods of time and try to get as much as I can out of it. Sometimes I fall out of love with a game series, like Gran Turismo and Forza because of changes to the series.

But am I a hard core gamer? No. I own one console, do not play on PC, do not mod my games, and do not try to get every game out there. To me a hard core gamer is someone that dedicates large amounts of time and money to the hobby of games across a wide spectrum of gaming categories and platforms. I was a hard core slot car collector and racer. I had hundreds of cars from the 60s to 2000s, tracks and setups. I raced my cars in my basemant in seeded competitions against the clock in various categories, and modded the cars at the back of the pack to stay competitive with cars at the front. I would disappear into the basemant for hours, or days at a time. When I emerged it was like I was coming out of a fog.

There is room for me, someone fitting my description of hard core, and anyone anywhere on that spectrum, in the community, and they all have opinions that are equally valid in what makes a good game for THEM. Smart developers listen to the whole, and tailor their product to the market they most want to target.

Of the millions of copies sold of Fallout 4, this forum represents but a fraction of a fraction. Just like car forums I frequent, those here lose sight of the fact that we do not represent the community or customer base as a whole, but a vocal minority of that community. If you keep that thought in mind, you can then relax and not take those loud voices quite so serious and personal when the voices don't match your own thoughts.

I don't consider myself anything more than a lifelong fan of games, that said part of gaming for me is challenge. I go out of my way to make a game as punishing as possible because part of my enjoyment is having to make split second decisions or die. Some people don't like to die or play for the story, whatever, I don't care, your difficulty slider means absolutely nothing to me and my enjoyment of a game.

The problem I have with hardcoe and casual, is that they more often than not, are used as labels in a derogative manner or a way, to set a person above another due to game choices. Main problem, for me, is that the definitions of the two words are numerous, and varies from person to person, and also varies from game to game, in what a hardcoe vs casual is. No matter how benign you try to use the words, there are always people who will turn it in to them and us scenarios. It isn't healthly, nor is it constructive or good for a game in the long run if the community is splitted in a us vs them scenario. I would rather, we all, worked for a better game, for all involved. It does a franchise no good, if some is driving others away because of some misplaced elitist feelings about a game that ultimately is there, for having fun.