Thats...A great idea, limiting fast travel to inns is a good way to do it

Well, thank you for the apology. Tell you the truth, I overreacted, too. I just really don't like it when people remain in full advocation of keeping Oblivion's system, bugs and all.

In any case, as I have said before, I am not advocating dismissing fast-travel. I would just prefer if people would stop treating an overall lazily designed feature as completely needed exactly as it is in Oblivion with no changes. It really needs to be changed, namely to stop the player from being able to skip the entire map at no cost to himself right from the get go. And hey, since that's going to happen, it does make me feel a bit better. But not all the way.

But you really want to know something? Why couldn't Bethesda have just fixed Morrowind's teleportation spells? Why'd they have to gut that system for just an easy-click instant travel service? So the player doesn't have to earn the right to fast travel? You want to know what my real problem with Oblivion's system is... it's that it is simply given to you. You don't have to do a thing to earn the ability to skip those trips, you can just do it right from the start.

Oh, and there's also that it heavily discourages the use of other features of the game. Want to know why horses in Oblivion felt like gimmicks? Fast Travel. Because fast-travel existed, horses were purposeless (as they were meant to be not much more than a travel aid). So my argument is... why discourage features when you could slightly tweak those features to PROMOTE the others? What's wrong with limiting the player to using the fast-travel system while on horseback? This way, he at least needs to do some work and buy the rights.

I thought the answer to this problem was have a random encounter stop the travel. Like encountering a highway men, bandits and animals that interrupt the travel sequence.

But, as it has been stated COUNTLESS times its OPTIONAL. Whenever I start a new game in F:NV or Oblivion I walk to each place. I don't run or use fast travel(for the first bit), I could, but I don't. I LIMIT MYSELF.
However when I have to head back to base(House, thieves den, or wizards tower depending on the character) I usually FT, because walking the same path a 100 times would be boring.

Like in Dragon Age, PLEASE NO!

This is a BIG no for me. I might use some so-called 'hardcoe' options like food and drink and sleep, but I don't want things like this. I'd prefer a sub-menu for things like this rather than some mode with a cheesy name that has a blanket of preset options that you can't choose between.

OK, so this stalemate seems to arise in every thread where fast travel is the subject.

One side feels they're being criticised by elitists for "playing the game wrong" and feel like this other side want to take their fast travel away altogether, or to change it into something they don't like.

The other side feel they're the ones being shouted down by the "Don't like it? Don't use it!" argument and feel their legitimate concerns about fast travel and their ideas to improve it are thus ignored.

Why isn't there more support for a dead on 50/50 compromise? Which would be: Non-carriage fast-travel can be turned on and off. That sounds fairly feasible, I think. Anyone else?

If both sides were already guaranteed their basic requirement in this way, we could all discuss possible improvements from an even base.

spoken like a true neutral :thumbsup:

Pretty much an option to switch fast travel on and off, seperate from a hardcoe mode. And it will be called SUPER hardcoe MODE!

Fast-travel is good because it takes away from unnecessary travel time; however, it also destroys some of the immersion in the game world; therefore, faster more efficient modes of transportation are needed to compensate. But more hunger, fatigue etc? I dont think so, thats just annoying. Id rather tougher enemies requiring more tactical strategy.

I don't know where you think you get off, but here on these forums we don't take kindly to logic and reason.

like how i always say I CAN HAS CHEEZBURGER

Mostly because I am opposed to the notion of dismissing problems in a game by saying that you can just ignore them. It encourages lazy and sloppy game design, and Lord knows we don't need any more bugs in a Bethesda game.

Let's face it, it was not possible for Fast Travel to make Oblivion boring primarily because Fast Travel was optional. And Fast Travel is not teleportation.

- Using Inns. Did it in Oblvion.
- Enjoy walking around in beautiful environments. Did it in Oblvion.
- Sleep where ever when necessary. Did it in Oblvion.

Therefore, no need to remove Fast Travel.

Cant we toggle fast-travel on and off in the game menu?

You've said it twice... and I'm getting sick of it. :verymad:

The problem in Oblivion was that there was simply no benefit to walking somewhere. The odds are you werent going to stumble across anything interesting.. maybe yet another Fort, Mine, Ayleid Ruin and so on.

With Skyrims random encounters (im sure they were confirmed) then there will be reasons to walk somewhere. If you are fast travelling all over the place your random encounters will be few and far between. Its not about removing or keeping fast travel, its about making walking somewhere worthwhile over simply teleporting there from a map.

If fast travel wasnt in Oblivion people would spend most of the game travelling to their destination.

If it's already optional, why do you need to turn it off? Why should additional programming changes go into something that you can already avoid simply by virtue of not using it? This is like the "I'm not going to romance anyone, so I don't think romance should be in the game" argument. If you look at the way this argument is made, it can apply to anything. For example, I don't like to sneak, so sneaking shouldn't be in the game. I don't like hammers and maces, so hammers and maces shouldn't be in the game. Do you see what I'm getting at? The choice to use it or not use it is already there. It's already optional. People who want the option to turn it off are asking for another optional choice, which to me is more like the Department of Redundancy Department.

Because people like me cant help themselves... and when you do it you are anguished.

I had been playing oblivion for weeks before realizing there were wolfs on the roads, why? Because i fast-travelled everywhere.

Daggerfall was pretty hardcoe and there was fast travel... But in a potentially smaller world such as Skyrim I agree with this. MAKE US WALK

Doesn't matter if it's optional... Suppose you think that, when the game comes out, mages are overpowered... Are you NEVER gonna play as one just to make the game harder?

Everything should be balanced... At least give us penalties for fast travelling... Like a screen with random events or somehting... "You found a storm and got lost" and appearing 1 mile away from your objective, or "You ran out of food" and loosing a little health...

I don't get the point - you want hardcoe mode make it so you CAN'T fast travel, when you don't have to anyway?? :shakehead:

I like the idea of a camp you can make. But I don't think you need a special mode for it. It should be optional as well.

Did I say it shouldn't be in the game? We can let our enemies get a few good hits on us for a more challenging experience... but we will usually increase the difficulty.

To everyone arguing with "don't like it, don't use it," allow me to highlight the flaw in this logic.

What if Bethesda game you a full set of Dragonbone armor right at the start of the game under the notion of "you don't have to use it of you don't want?" Does that change the fact that you are still being given full Dragonbone armor?

Power is not a right, it is a privilege, and must be earned. Fast Travel is a manner of representing your character's power, by allowing him to skip past the mundane events of the roads that would have posed a significant challenge to a newcomer. Therefore, to give the player a means of skipping them right from the start ruins that notion.

Oblivion did this by allowing you to fast-travel to every major city right from the start of the game. However, my hope is Skyrim will not, and that will help balance the system.

In the end, my viewpoint is this: Oblivion gave you fast-travel. This violates the ideas of exploration and progression by giving the player immediate access to a "just do it for me" button, which removes challenge. Games are all about overcoming challenge. Ergo, Oblivion did it way wrong. Skyrim simply cannot do it the same way without solidly confirming that Bethesda is clearly trying to dumb the game down.

I was almost svcked in there, but I think there's something a little illogical to your pretty good logic.

Imagine Bethesda put shotguns in the game that were pretty easy to come by but could only be used by the player character: Would you be making the same "don't like it, don't use it" argument? Honestly?

Because sneaking and hammers and maces, to use your examples, are much less controversial inclusions than fast travel. Your examples are widely accepted staples of fantasy games. Fast travel divides opinion much more widely, and therefore is much more deserving of a genuine On/Off option. As I see it.

edit: Beat me too it above.

Doesn't your character earn that privelage by having to make that ourney on foot first, dangers and all, but only have the ability to go to places they have already been as a Reward?

I don't think its a stalemate, nor do I think any of the concerns are legit.
What these people want is for everyone else to play the game their way, but what is fun for them is not always fun for everyone else.
"Don't like it? Don't use it." Is the most reasonable and basic argument. The game isn't forcing you to use fast travel.
So you don't have to use it if you don't want to, but taking it away would ruin the game for others, everyone plays differently and FT is keeping options open.

Utterly pointless. Not using it and turning it off, lead to the same conclusion.