Greetings, my lore friends. I am here once more with questions concerning Pelin-El Whitestrake. My primary one at the time is who exactly Harrald is, and what his relationship with Pelinal was. Beyond that I have several inquiries about Pelin-El and the rebellion in general. If you would be so kind as to entertain my ignorance for a short time, I would appreciate it. Thank you.


1. Who is Harrald Harry Breeks, or Hans the Fox? I have not been able to find them except in their regards to Pelin-El, and even then information about them is scarce. I am not very skilled with all the searching of websites, and have been amazed at some of the things you all have found before, so the original source of these two characters, or any further insight would be helpful. Were they all incarnations of Shor? Were they the same person? I read that one was a king and the other a sorcerer, but what else is known about them?

2. Are there any heroes of the rebellion whose real names are known? Both Al-Esh and Pelin-El are titles, but is there any documentation of their true names? Did they go by these names, or is this just what the people and historians called them?

3. What was the exact path Al-Esh took after she was freed from Sardavar? Did Morihaus let her out, or did she do that on her own? Where was the camp where they ran into Pelin-El?

4. When did the group make alliances with the Nords?

5. In the second section of the Song of Pelinal, they speak as if Morihas was with Al-Esh, as she knew him, but later it states he was with Pelin-El. Where was Morihas during her prayers within the camp?

6. In the fourth section of the Song, they say Pelin-El freed the prisoners at Vahtacen, with Al-Esh riding on Morihas above them. I am guessing the three of them freed these slaves, after Al-Esh had been freed. Am I correct?

7. Generally most of the fourth part doesn't make much of any sense to me

8. When did Morihaus and Al-Esh first start getting "together"? I am making the rough guess that he freed her from her slave camp, they started the rebellion with the other humans there, met up with Pelin-El, freed Vahtacen, allied with the Nords, and headed for White Gold. At least, that's most of what I gather from part four. So when did the romance start?

9. I've touched on this already, but can anyone give a rough timeline of what all went down from 242 until Al-Esh's death? I would really like to have at least a rough outline of events, so I can base things on that.


Thank you all, your help is greatly appreciated.

The other names are their only references, blank slates waiting for a story, just like "Pelinal Whitestrake" was before KotN. Putting together the pieces in the Song of Pelinal, it sounds like the rebellion started at Sardavar Leed, without Pelinal but probably with Morihaus. It then went counterclockwise around Lake Rumare - liberating Vahtacen, meeting the Nords, then hitting Sancre Tor, Ninendeva, and Ceyatatar before turning inward on White Gold.

Also, there's this from the Imperial Library timeline:

Merethic Era - Circa 1E 660 An immortal hero, warrior, sorceror, and king variously known as Pelinal Whitestrake, Harrald Hairy Breeks, Ysmir, Hans the Fox, etc., wanders Tamriel, gathering armies, conquering lands, ruling, then abandoning his kingdoms to wander again.

Incarnations of Shor, I guess.

Yarp

legend says that Al-Esh's original name was Perrif. ive also read that slaves were not allowed to have names. Pelinal is a crazy god incarnation, i dont think he'd have a name originally. either way, names are really titles to begin with. All names have meaning (a quick google search reveals that mine means upholder of the good/maintains possessions well/strong/ powerful/ winning/ owner/rich/ great fire), and traditionally, when naming a child, it was the parents hope that the child would cary the qualities of his name. i would argue that, in a magical world like Tamriel, names are destiny.


afair, she and her fellows escaped on their own, after that little is known. we know that the IC was their last stop, and that they made an alliance with the nords about half way though the fight. It seems the Niben and east cyrod were purged first in a northwads march. after allying with the nordic peoples, they liberated the west (chorol and skingrad sectors) as they marched back south to the IC. ill make a map later


after making significant gains in cyrodiil, perhaps reaching as far as bruma. as i said before, 'skyrim' was more southern then.


sounds like Mor had left the main group to be get Pelinal.


Alessia's rebelion at Sard started the whole thing, so yea, any pelinal/mor action is after that.


its a chronology of Pel's deeds. its basically saying that Pel and the rebellion pushed the elves west and took over their villages as they went. they liberated slaves who joined their armies and people proclaimed alessia Al-Esh, their queen. they then ally with the nords, who recognize him as Shor, and continue south. and then they get to the IC, everyone is afraid of rushing the tower, but pelinal goes in by himself.


sometime during their fighting together, i'd say.


the http://www.imperial-library.info/history/1.shtml is as good as it gets here, i think.

hope that makes sense.

Morihaus was a minotaur if I remember right, by the way.

Also, I think Pelinal says to him once that ". . . we are Ada" when he's warning Morihaus about getting involved with Alessia. Kind of an interesting statement. In this context, it would mean that "we are gods" I assume? Or maybe we're in demigod territory here.

Edit: Sorry, I guess Morihaus was a bull and Belharza was the minotaur.

Indeed, I had already read that one, and it led me to believe that they were all three the same person, going by different names or titles. However, other sources led me to believe that they were entirely different heroes, an idea I find much more plausible. Though they could all have been avatars :shrug:



Thank you very much :goodjob:



I doubt that, I had interpreted it as meaning he was like a bull, not a literal animal.

Yes, I read that, and I believe it either means they were actually incarnations and demi gods, or they believed themselves gods.

He really was a bull, and the resulting children were the minotaurs. Heck, Morihaus wasn't just a bull too, but a flying one. He could shape shift into a human though, but when he and Alessia were getting jiggy with it, he was completely a bull. And it was done in public. In front of everyone.

they might have had secret names, or just called themselves by assumed titles ("blond girl" "fat old dude"). Or they could have kept their original names.


pelinal was a crazy shezarine future robot knight. he was also the amulet of kings Basically, he was Alessia's prayers solidified in human form, a symbol of the perseverance and eventual victory of man over mer. All the stories of him tell only of his divine/mythic nature, and we know from the 2nd song that he was not a (willing) prophet. i mean yea, theoretically he could have been a really, really uber dude. however, thats sort of boring, aint it? and it really doesnt explain the crazy stories about him.


part of the story is that Alessia is not passive. She did not simply sit back and suffer, she re-discovered freedom and its patron god, and that was her greatest rebellion. The whole thing with the ayleids, which we really dont get much of in oblivion, is that their domination of man was as much psychological as it was physical. They did not let men keep their culture, they completely broke their will and beliefs. made them forget that there is a life beyond slavery. the slaves did not have a concept of "freedom" until Al-Esh named it, giving it power. Morihaus Son of Kyne and Pelinal are the personifications of human gods coming to Alessia's aid.


Yep. the timeline suggests that they avoided western Colovia until they had taken the tower (which makes sense, theres not much out there anyways). They also did not venture into Skyrim proper (unless its borders extended into Cyrodiil at that time), instead, Alessia sent messages and the Nords came down.

The ada are deities, like et'ada. mor was a demigod, and pelinal was a fragment of lorkhan. mor's love for alessia really would change the world, because it gave the cyrodiilic empire divine backing.

Because of the armour? That's his hide. Otherwise I missed something.

I think Lady Nerevar put it well. MK also once said that Pelinal was a "terminator", and from the future. Not in the robot sense, as far as I know. But Pelinal seems to have been a construct.

and here is the http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/7511/ayleidcyrodmap.jpg. i <3 maps.

[edit] damn it type-os. oh well, who reads the key anyways.

Alright, so even with the incredible skepticism I am placing on the lore for the sake of the story, I can safely say he could in fact take the form of a bull. And you are sure there is no way to interpret the source of this information to mean he was bull-like, having the traits of a bull? And he could fly, excellent. I'm guessing that would be because of Kyne?






Yes, I think I'll mostly ignore that for the most part. Perhaps give him prophetic dreams of the future, but time travelling has a way of killing a story




Excellent map, that should prove most helpful All I need now is the exact way it happened, and I'll probably be making that up myself. Thank you all very much, that cleared it up a lot. Though I still don't know exactly who Hans and Harrald were, I should be able to ignore them for the most part, as they seem so minor.

Mor is said to be the bull-son of kyne, besides that, we dont really know what his divine nature is.

the thing with both pelinal and mor is that while they are gods they are still extremely human. pelinal is driven crazy by the contradictions of his personality and his intense hate for the elves. he acts before thinking, often endangering the life of his companions. he is able to love like everyone else, and attaches to people in his party (some of whom die). He is never quite sure who he is. Mor is in love with someone who he is forbidden to love, someone who may die any minute. He also has a deep bond with pelinal, and is conflicted about his homicidal rampages. alessia is a young woman finding herself, and her nation, in a war against everything she has ever known. her chances are slim, and if she does not succeed again the much stronger force she will die (at best). she is in love with someone who is completely alien. her past is dark, her future uncertain. i dont think you have to make them human to keep them interesting.

Nice map!

I dunno, there's the statue of him in human form :shrug:

WHY? :blink:

I mean, to what purpose do Mor and Alessia do that? I mean, in private, sure, whatever... but why public? Why did they want their followers/army to see them copulating? Some sort of ritual/enantiomorph/mantelling process?

Don't forget that the second emperor was Belharza the Man-Bull.

Indeed, they are great characters. Though we can't have them running around destroying entire country sides All I'm saying is that they can't be uber, not that they are going to be flat characters.



Really? Where? I am writing his character, so I would much like to know what he looks like. Or is it him in bull form?



Maybe they were just a little freaky? Got to get the stress of creating an Empire, a new religious order, and battling mage kings out somehow, right?



Of course, Alessia and Morihaus' child, appointed by the Elder Council as Emperor after Alessia died.

he is the one holding the shackles...arena district, i think? either way, i wouldnt really pay too much attention to that.

Actually, that is just a random soldier pointing up at Morihaus (not depicted) in the sky.

I dunno, it says it's him in TIL http://www.imperial-library.info/cyrodiil_cities/ic.shtml

Owh dear. That must have been mislabelled.

i love you guys

(yes, this is totally on topic)

Yes, that doesn't look very bull-ish. Though the shackles make sense :shrug:

So that is, in fact, Alessia? What a strange dress...