No, I'm understanding you perfectly, but you seem to not grasp the fact that you won't be any stronger in combat because you spent your time leveling up your skill in alchemy while neglecting your combat abilities.

I'll put it this way with the age-old stereotype: The nerd gets pounded on because he's smart with books, but weak compared to the jock. If the nerd spent a little more time on getting physically stronger instead of only just mentally stronger, he'd become more able to stand up for himself physically against the same jock.

This isn't some traditional JRPG where leveling up means arbitrary increases in everything, this is different. In this, you level up according to the skills you use, so that the more you focus on stealth, the better you become at sneaking around and either getting sneak attack crits or otherwise bypassing threats to get the loot. If you spend all your time on getting better at making potions but none at all on improving anything related to combat, you will have a harder time at combat as you rise in levels compared to everything else. Kind of like if you don't hit the gym once in a while, you're going to get soft and fat, instead of lean and trim.

I honestly feel like I'm being Captain Obvious here, you really don't understand that???

The levels are typically locked to your relative level in dungeons at the time when you first enter them, and they don't scale as much, while other areas will own you if you're not powerful enough. The idea of the scaling is that you still get something of a challenge from time to time, especially when you get into the upper levels, because by then you will have plenty of higher leveled skills and upper-tier perks and gear to utilize.

Me: "So, what have you got for sale?"

Merchant: "Oh, just a full set of enchanted Ebony armor, a couple Glass swords... you know, the basics."

This isn't a traditional jrpg? Well this also is not real life! Everything revolves around combat you must combat in order to do anything in the game so what you are saying simply does not apply. If i level up pickpocket and lockpicking for example what will they offer me? Also are jrpgs the only ones that had level progression for you? Really?

As for you last paragraph i finished almost every dungeon in the game and it was mundane. The dungeons themselves etc were great but the enemies were all scaled, i knew what i would face, i killed any enemy i faced, i knew what loot i would get and so on. Great eh?

It's even more absurd to be in a world that does not change in any way whatsoever compared to your own character, as though everything's just waiting for you to come along to kill them.

The first handful of levels in Morrowind were difficult as hell, especially with the combat system it had, but it wasn't long before it swung to the opposite spectrum and combat was a joke apart from fighting a few exceptional characters here and there.

And Morrowind actually did have level scaling. In some areas, you'd find a Fire Atronach, but come back a few levels later and you'd more likely find a Twilight or Dremora Lord.

The core idea behind level scaling is that everything doesn't just become as easy as a Mudcrab at a point and then that's the end of it for even taking the time on combat.



And way to sound like an ass, there, you have my applause for that.

This comment has probably already been shot to death in the multiple pages of this thread...

...But i don't think it can be shot enough, so here's one more.

Morrowind is quite possibly the least linear rpg of all time, ever.

You really don't seem to understand things very well, it seems.

Complain away, I can already see that it's going to be nothing but a circular argument the further I try to make sense to you.

Claim all you want about how you've played through it all on Master level and understand, but the tenor of your statements suggest otherwise.

Skyrim did only maginarly better at Level scaling.

The biggest and main gripe I have is the item scaling.....

Dungeons are better, but its still all random or crap static loot. Morrowind had the excitement that you could wandering into a random hard dungeon at a low level and endup with something like ebony or even an artifact. This made exploring random dungeons exciting.

Skyrim is slightly better....but there is still Oblivion style....with a boss chest at the end of a dungeon that randomlly makes loot for your level. On the walls there is normally only iron armor/weapons (wtf? you get steel before you even enter your first dungeon), meaning placed loot is generally useless.

I am yet to see a single good artifact/unique weapon that wasnt a quest reward (aka, no point in random exploring if the best stuff is only quest related). Not ot mention there are still quite a few unique artifacts that are scaled to your level when you get them....potentially missing out on the best gear for doing the quest too early.

Random loot makes dunegone boring, as you always have a good idea what you'll end up with.

BETHESDA! Morrowind did item placement right...just admit it and use that system....if you use static hard enemies to guard the static good loot there isnt a problem of a weak character getting good gear too early.

And you think this can't be dealt with and the only solution is scaling? Yes i expect bandits etc to be easy as mudcrabs when i level up enough. But this does not mean that there won't be challenges for me to face if the game is designed correctly. I'll clear that bandit camp easily but i'll get the challenge in the troll cave i couldn't clear before. And when i would be strong enough i could move on to killing dragons etc. At level 5 i expect to be a weakling and afraid of almost anything and at level 50 i expect to be able to slay almost anything. You can't imagine how rewarding it will then be.

The "it wasn't long before it swung to the opposite spectrum and combat was a joke" depends on how developers implement these things and if implemented correctly this can only happen when you have completed most of the game and are 50+.



Sorry but when i try to immerse myself in this game this is the only way i can explain it!



Yea "i'm not the one who understands things very well" and yet you are in a lack of words and arguments. Convenient.
Anyway i have no reason to lie about it, i played on master level since lvl 5 of my first character, NEVER changed the difficulty in any character after that and simply, my experience is what i've already told you. Every dungeon had predictable enemies and loot and i just barged in and cleared them. (I don't say the dungeons are not interesting etc). If you doubt that just play the game.

C- for the grammar. A+ for the content.

The current model works fine. What would the point of an Open world game where you can only go to this spot when you're level 30, this spot when you're level 5 and so on?

If you want to play a game like that go play Call of Duty.

Obviously you haven't read previous posts...
Silliest. Argument. Ever.

If by "linear" you mean not being able to kill anything at level 1 though, yes i vote for "linear"........ Like how Morrowind, Gothic 3, Risen etc were linear :rolleyes:
(To be fair it's not "everything" at skyrim but still)

I stopped having troubles with Bandits around Lvl 8...

Seriously I just hit them and an execution happens, never ran into one stronger than a dragon...

I'd just like to point out, cause I didnt say it in my last post.

Enemies in this game are rather good, the scale well, and some get easier, some harder as you level up....and you still fight the easiest version even at higher levels....

Keep leveling my friend, keep leveling.. *evil laugh*



Yea the game does throw some easy versions of enemies to show you a glimpse of the difference from these levels you got. Imo that's lame but it's better than nothing.

This, a thousand times. Can't believe they repeated the same mistake from Oblivion after all the complaints they got.

Absence of level scaling essentially makes the game a linear experience. You can't have a free roaming open world if you're going to get smoked going into areas with higher level baddies.

So everything must be on your level to be able to kill it right? Great thinking...

Hunting for artifacts was what I liked best in Morrowind. I also liked the fact that when I went in to a tomb I didn't know what I was going to face difficulty wise.. it added a sence of fear, and realism to the world. Oblivion or Skyrim I can generally chillax - because before I go in I know its all scaled to my level. Skyrim I have far less of a problem with, because some of the enemies are tough at any level, at least.

You're assuming level scaling is bad just because Bethesda got it wrong. It's not. If you end up deviating from your questing area, you will end up either finding enemies too easy to kill or too difficult to kill.

This is not an MMO. Go back to World of Warcraft, please.

You know what the fun part is?

When Morrowind came out, people was "the game is too easy, you become too strong too soon, Bethesda fix this [censored]". Most internet boards (GameFAQs for example) looked exactly like this, with a sleeve long list of threads on all pages about how the game broke around level 12 and how following the main plotline made all the subquests feel irrelevant or how the main quest svcked because it was so easy if you explored at your leisure.

Say what you will, but it's an argument I've seen enough times already to make me want to puke blood on command, and it always ends up in circles because it ultimately comes down to a matter of personal taste and experience. I will only state that I've already said enough of what I have to say, even in the first post I made in response to this thread, and that I have played Morrowind and Oblivion, and I am more than familiar enough with both to recognize elements of both in how Skyrim has been scaled and designed. I'm rather tired of spending time on these forums seeing how so many people find so many things to complain about that I don't understand in terms of what exactly is the problem apart from nitpicking and conflict of expectations and each person's personal taste.

There are still people who moan constantly about fast travel even being an option in the game and want it removed because it somehow ruins their experience just by being an option that they never use anyway. And they want to just simply beg to have it removed for everyone else because they themselves never use it.

I'm spending more time on pointless arguments that amount to difference of opinions when I'd much rather be playing this game because I'm finding a great deal of enjoyment from the experience, and the problems that seem to be apparent for other people I'm just not experiencing at all, myself. I feel like I'm playing something that isn't anything remotely at all like what they seem to be playing, and that they both share the same name of Skyrim because of some crazy coincidence. And all I end up seeing is that some people are so relentlessly negative about it all, and I'd rather just stop wallowing in that and remember that I can still enjoy things because I'm not having the problems that everyone else is having, while still playing the same thing.

Maybe it's that I don't try to mold it to my own set of expectations and cry havoc when that fails; but instead I just take the experience for what it is. Maybe it's because I don't make every effort to min-max my skills and gear, and just instead enjoy adventuring and taking things as they come along.

Sorry that you seem to have such a big issue with it, but I'm finding that they've gotten everything just about right, and I enjoy seeing how much is drawn from Morrowind and Oblivion, and in all the right places by my estimation. There are still some faults and flaws, but they are tiny shadows that pale in comparison to how awesome I find Skyrim, as a whole, and I'd rather hold on to that enjoyment than let it become ultimately ruined because I spent too much time fielding about all this negativity that others seem to have about it.

So you're right, I'm conveniently short of words to keep going on with this. You have fun with that. I'm going to go with more positive environs than this.

Anyone who says they have played the entire game on master is either a garbage liar or not playing the same game.

I played a full time one-hand/shield warrior. The only perk points I put into my character from around levels 1-25 were literally towards increasing one-hand damage and raising the effectiveness of block and heavy armor.

During my level 1-25 experience, I would constantly get my sass handed to me on a silver platter by random things in the wilderness like trolls etc. I would constantly enter dungeons, and have to leave because I couldn't kill the enemies there on Master. Of course I could have just dropped difficulty down, which I ended up doing. I started playing on expert most of the time as most of the enemies were still pretty challenging and fully capable of killing me. There were still instances I had to drop the difficulty down to Adept or even Apprentice because there was some over-powered as hell (in a good way) Arch Pyromancer mother effer that sent frost waves of doom that ignored cover and one-shotted my sass even on NOVICE. Yes NOVICE.

All the while I would encounter very lowly, easy enemies that I could one shot myself or at the very most kill in 3-4 swings of a sword on Master/Expert.

So I guess the point I'm trying to make is, what exactly is the problem with the way Skyrim's level scaling works? At level 1, there were areas I could not clear. At level 10, there were areas I could not clear. At level 20, there were levels I could not clear. I'm currently level 44, and on Master, there is still chit that one-shots my sass in certain dungeons and it takes me several deaths to figure out how to beat them.

I understand the gripes about loot scaling, however, but I think its completely stupid to want to be able to get the best stuff in the game at level 10 because you figured out how to loophole your way through a dungeon. If you want the best stuff as fast as possible just use the console and get full Daedric.

There are also lockpicking and pickpocket perks (can't remember which) that increase the amount of gold looted in dungeons and increase the amount of rare items in each dungeon. I personally have not wasted the perk points to see how this works but I can imagine quite well.

There are a number of problems with Skyrim that are backwards steps from Morrowind and Oblivion but I don't think the way the enemies in the world and dungeons work are one of those problems. At level 44 I still find easy stuff to kill, and I still find stuff that one shots me. This is with heavy armor 100, one-handed 100, block 100, with 15 perks spent across those three increasing their effectiveness. With really good armor to boot.

Bethesda is damned if they do and damned if they don't, essentially.

Yea well i hate kids who hate level scaling.

Heh perhaps you are the one who has played only mmo's, since you seem to only have them to compare it with. Mmo's have nothing to do with anything we are talking about, they are a completely different thing, don't be confused by other topics.

We are talking about Skyrim's level scaling here not "general level scaling". Other games had level scaling too, but it was so subtle and clever that you wouldn't even notice it's there.
And in Skyrim, wherever you go you find approximately the same level of enemies (save for a handful of exceptions), no real dangers in exploring and tedious scaled loot.



Yea well your reply is clearly not something a kid would post.