Some players want to start off exploring Whiterun and its environs. Others want to start of playing in Solitude and its environs. Others want to spend their lower levels somewhere else. Skyrim is a comfortably large world when it is all open to you. Start zoning it off into the Whiterun area being for levels 1-10, and Solitude for levels 35-45, and Windhelm being for levels 8-16, and so forth, and the world starts to feel very small, very linear, and very dull, very very fast.

+1 hate any type of scaling.

Edit, make the NPC's level up realistically, like... If a guard fights a troll and wins etc he should get the weapon and armour increases from killing the troll. He shouldnt just get better outa nowhere from sitting inside Whiterun.. You've been out delving dungeons and stuff & he sits there doing nothing, yet he scales with you? Wtf.

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NPCs in Skyrim are there to be seen, to be obstacles, and to be interacted with, not to compete with you in adventuring. In strategy games like Galatic Civilizations II, enemies compete against you to conquer the galaxy, so it makes sense for them to advance in power according to the rules you follow. Scaling in Skyrim accomodates the the function of NPCs in Skyrim.

If level scaling wasn't in, you'd be complaining it was to easy.
Think of how many dungeons include bandits? Quite a few, dragons are a rarity, and actually Ancient Dragons are feckers. After while you come back on here and say omg its to easy bandits are well easy to kill and I can't even kill one dragon even though im the dragonborn. If its to easy play on Master.
I'm sorry its not easy, I can happily say I can get my but kicked on Master, normally by Mages or Archers.

So that's why I also go to New Sorpigal first then to Castle Ironfist then Mist, then Bootleg Bay and only then to free Haven.

So you might want to get to Mist early because you want to learn other magic schools as well, but better be prepared to kill hordes of Fanatics

And if you've played M&M5, there's only one word: Armored Armadillo

Huh? Did anyone actually read my previous post? Skyrim does not scale creature types with your level. They are what they are and they remain that way always, Giants are always wandering around and they are always level 32, go try and kill one at level 1, and it's not impossible with the right tactics, but make just one error and your dead, instantly.

The only scaling part to this game is you won't see things like an Ancient Dragon flying around at level 1, but there are dungeons out there with creatures in way higher than you from the start. They have set level ranges, enter a level 30 dungeon at the stat and you'll know about it pretty soon. What i don't get is why people think that this game scales like Oblivion? When it's nothing like it at all.

End Game! :brokencomputer: This is not WoW! We don't want to grind elite areas for fat loot :flamethrower:


I see so many lovers of linear RPGs, play them instead and leave TES. Open world game like Skyrim/Oblivion/Fallout can't exist without level scaling. When you outlevel certain dungeon/area then what? And don't come up with the idea to roll another char and choose different paths, quests and dungeons, because on your current one they are super easy.

Most complainers of level scaling in Skyrim are those who like to play the main quest and couple of more quest lines and quit. To become uber fighters, very strong, never to visit again old places and almost to no exploring. "Finish" the game and be gone, happy because they achieved great victory.

Don't know what game you people are playing, besides Bandit outlaw,plunderer,dentist,whatever thing i feel i'm getting varried content, especially if you wander off to another hold than Whiterun at lower levels you'll come across much stronger enemies.
I got an ebony waraxe from a draugur boss in the Rift at like level9 and it took me acouple of million tries with atleast 5 minutes of just fighting. My new character is running around Hjaalmarch and i've had to run away loads of times beacuse some of the enemies are just too high level for me to fight.
And i don't get how you can't feel that you're getting more powerful?
Maby it's beacuse i didn't bother with smithing and enchanting but on my ranger/barbarian char i felt like i had to be very careful not to get my ass kicked around level 10 but by the time i was 25-30 i felt like a total bad ass.
Are you people just doing quests? Is it just random and i happen to be lucky with my spawns?

I have to assume you missed the part where i said "Oblivion/Skyrim style level scaling". No, i don't have limited experience with roleplaying systems (if anything, i think about such things far more than i should) and yes, there's a lot more to roleplaying than number inflation and roleplaying games are not mere numeric egoboosters. On that note, it's interesting how appropriate the term "number inflation" applies when describing Oblivion/Skyrim scaled levelling...

thats so [censored] though because if you get to max level as it currantly is, enemies will be scaled with you. if you get to max level with no scaling, there will be enemies which are programmed to be elite and tough, for end game.
the only difference is that one doesnt ruin the game world and the other does.

As much as I like Skyrim, I still prefer Morrowinds play style. It seemed more believeable to me. People keep saying that Skyrim's system could be tweaked to be better, so could Morrowinds to be even better. I really dislike how armor levels with you, especially in shops. Takes the fun and rarity in finding them yourself. Playing Morrowind and its getting to easy, make the game harder. It has a difficulty adjuster... My oppinion is that they do this for a 'different gameplay experience' with each play through. Where if you were playing Morrowind, nothing would change. So really, I believe it would be better going back to the way Morrowind was and tweaking that.

Server - take on board your sentiments as someone who is a keen roleplayer but I really have to disagree. Ultimately the idea that in RPG's the 'world never deign to suit the life of the character' is clearly ridiculous - every quest line is an example of the world bending to accommodate the life of your character. Any RPG is built to provide the player character with a rich experience not to provide realism.

On the levelling issue:
1. I'm really not sure what game some people are playing. Yes there is scaling but I'm simply not seeing the incongruity that did affect Oblivion. It generally seems logical and enjoyable to me at least.
2. In any open world RPG having a world without level would restrict player choice and movement. In a world where you have multiple Guilds, quest lines that can be started at any time, the abilty to travel freely between towns - I just think a static world would be completely impractical
3. Levelled loot - given that you can only clear dungeons once - I don't really see the problem here. I do agree it would be nice to have a few more unique artificats strategically placed in dungeons but Umbra showed the problem with this approach. You could get the item at Level 1 and never need to replace it.

Do I think the system is perfect: no. However, I do think Bethesda has found a good compromise between a game that allows for development and one that remains challenging.

its no different from oblivion imo. They say they fixed it, but they diddnt.

Or someone who put 62 hours into the game. All the arguments for level scaling are [censored]. Without the game would not be linear. You would just have to use your brain and not go to a certian area before a certian level or play smart and avoid combat. It is not neccesaray. It is a sign of lazy game design when it comes to leveling.

Surely you've just contradicted your own arguement. If you have to avoid certain areas or avoid combat before a certain level then you do have a game that funnels you. Plus in Skyrim there are plenty of areas you wouldn't want to touch at level 1. But how would an unscaled world honestly work with the multiple guest lines, locations, ability to travel freely between towns etc.

Even quests are not very level scaled, the quest where you restore the tree in Whiterun is not an level 2 quest.
Other quests select dungeons for you, started an new character and general kill quests sends you to totally different areas, random dungeon at your level.
Try to do some quests you have in log since the start and they are easy.

Or you could use your brain and play smart. Some one too strong for you,sneak up on them or used ranged combat.

If the world and set up are built badly with a low level character in mind, yes, that would be the case. However, if the world is built not expecting the character to survive much initially (expecting the player to do some heavy lifting in order to cope with the world) and leveling speed set up accordingly for it to feel rewarding but not overpowering, I don't see that happening in the magnitude which would disturb the balance.

Both scaling and non-scaling encounters in CRPGs are going to end up logically inconsistent

Of course, when some guy asks me to come with his family to go free his brother from a band of slavers known for quick execution, and I get there and I say "whoah, hold on a sec, you are fighting these guys? You know what, I'm gonna go away for a month and come back when I'm ready to fight these guys - you wait here" and they do - yeah that makes total sense.

Or when I happen upon a 25th bandit hold I've come across but now suddenly the bandits are fully trained warriors and mages, but somehow fail to use the top-tier weapon sitting in an unlocked chest not 10 feet away - just as stupid, right?

Nothing - literally NOTHING in a non-linear game is going to be 100% logically consistent. Both scaling and non-scaling encounters each have their inconsistencies in the game. I've been very happy playing Skyrim because MOST of the time, I can put such inconsistencies aside knowing it's just a method to ensuring the play style the developer wants me to have.

You could of course- but it doesn't really alter the basic point that this type of non scaled world does inevitably funnel you to certain areas - that's kind of the point. i just don't see how it would work in a game like Skyrim without destroying what makes it such a great experience.

Thst is the result of bad game design. Like the other guy said. That would not happen with a low level character in mind.

It's really not - think about a character levelling from 0-50. In a static world you need areas that will challenge the character across that spectrum. However, you also have to build in a whole range of questlines that can be started at any time and that involve travelling to different locations in the game world. I don't care how good your game design is - a completely static world is not going to allow adequate player freedom, particularly in terms of which quests to take on.

Here is my take on Skyrims so called scaling. When I first entered Skyrim, myself and friends wandered off to paths unknown. I stuck to the tundra near Whiterun, he headed west of Helgan. While he was getting smashed by bears and Necromages, I was carefully taking out easy bandits at a fort and making some gold. This, like Fallout 3, is area difficulty.

Now at level 40, I go to these areas, even out of sneak, I can pull out my swords in my apparently weak version of nightingale and dark brotherhood armor, and just plain drop them all with a few swings. If I go in to the fort, the same is evident as I have already been there. When I enter a dungeon now, the same fodder are there for my one shot stealth kills, or charge in DW kills. Draugr, bandits, novice necromancers etc etc. But in between there is a mob, that will make like a little more uncomfortable, if I chose not to, or fail to stealth kill him.

My first experience of this was around mid 20's. Cutting through a ruin and its Draugr residents like cheese, then while laughing how easy my bow takes them down, Lydia is off running at a slighty more armored version of a Draugr who didnt die in one or two shots unlike even the more powerful restless Draugr. Suddenly she yields, and I read "Draugr Deathlord"..... Oh dear, he turns, pops an arrow off at me, im down to, if I had to guess 7% health in one shot. Lets just say some time and many re-loads were spent there before he fell. And then on him I found an Ebony bow, which I used for a long long time.

I utterly love this so called scaling. For a start its not pure Oblivion scaling, its more Fallout 3 where its quite balanced, at higher levels most of the time you are Rambo, but the game will throw a few bones your way to make life difficult. In harder areas, the more difficult mobs are more apparent.

As for armor. I never saw faction armor as end game sets, to me they were always a leg up for the game. Early on getting DB armor for muffle, bow and sneak damage, helped me a ton, nightingale armor is rather useless for a sneak attacker even low level compared, but the caped look is too good for me to avoid. I feel the game wants me to eventually move on to my own set, not a strong faction set but full enchanted scale or glass armor. Which the only reason I havent done yet is because I want boots with muffle, no idea how to enchant that myself, and I wont do it till I have 100 enchant, ocd call it.

This discussion is going nowhere. I did not have complaints about Morrowind. To me its logical that later in the game I crush most things easily. Hell the Nerevarine practicly became a demigod, he did not age anymore, he did not get sick and he could train forever.

Morrowind had some level scaling, but very minimal. When I have dispacthed countless bandits, deadra and undead more of the same SHOULD BE a walk in the park in my opinion. Only if I got swarmed (like in bloodmoon) ambushed (with paralyze) or went up against millenia old high mages or other demi gods should I be in trouble. To me this is logical because of the gear and training I have under my belt by then. To you it has a lack of challenge. I prefer the immersion over the challenge.

Perhaps then skyrim is not the game for me, but I had hoped it would be. Thinks like guards should kick youre ass always the first 15 levels atleast and not scale. Pre level 20 taking on a dragon, should be near impossible in my opinion. And even in the 20-30's should feel like a major challenge. No bandit should ever compare to that. Perhaps I need another game then, but :
1. i havent found it yet
2. I love the TES universe